Music grades

Cakeguts

borkid wrote: »

But unless it has changed to get that audition you need to be grade 8. When my son applied for a music technology course several years ago he had to have grade 5 and grade 7 in a different instrument before he was even considered for a place he then had to go to an audition. Out of the 300 applicatants applying for the 20 places they only took 16 in his year.

Grade 8 is roughly equivalent to A level. I seem to remember many years ago that the entrance qualification to conservatoires was a distinction at grade 8. That would sift out people who had no chance. There would still be more applicants than spaces so an audition which looked for other qualities. as in any profession an exam is just the starting point at whatever level. By your reasoning I could argue why did I need a modern foreign language to study science. It was the way it was back then, yet another hoop to be jumped through before interview.

I actually do play an instrument as a hobby and haven't taken grades in it. I was not intending to make a career in it so didn't need them and I have enough motivation to practise. A lot of adults ( and children) need the motivation to practice and like to have a goal at the end. They get a feeling of pride and achievement from that 'bit of paper'.

What happened years ago doesn't apply to people who might be wanting to pay for grade exams now.

Now grade 8 is not the standard for music college entrance. To pass an audition to a top music college you have to be a much much higher standard of playing than grade 8 I know the information says that you should have reached grade 8 but it doesn't say when. The people auditioning for a top music college could have done it by the age of 12. By the time they audition they will be a much much higher standard than that. Standards of playing have risen and competition for places is high.

Regarding the A levels and grade 8. You have to be careful not to confuse the education level 3 qualifications with what you can use the qualification for. So for example you can't exchange an A level for grade 8. A university wouldn't accept 2 A levels and grade 8 instead of 3 A levels.

There is a system in place for university courses like music that if someone doesn't have the grade passes their teacher can write to the university and confirm that the student is of the correct standard. UK universities accept international students who don't take grades.

borkid

Cakeguts wrote: »

What happened years ago doesn't apply to people who might be wanting to pay for grade exams now.

Now grade 8 is not the standard for music college entrance. To pass an audition to a top music college you have to be a much much higher standard of playing than grade 8 I know the information says that you should have reached grade 8 but it doesn't say when. The people auditioning for a top music college could have done it by the age of 12. By the time they audition they will be a much much higher standard than that. Standards of playing have risen and competition for places is high.

Regarding the A levels and grade 8. You have to be careful not to confuse the education level 3 qualifications with what you can use the qualification for. So for example you can't exchange an A level for grade 8. A university wouldn't accept 2 A levels and grade 8 instead of 3 A levels.

There is a system in place for university courses like music that if someone doesn't have the grade passes their teacher can write to the university and confirm that the student is of the correct standard. UK universities accept international students who don't take grades.

1) I did say distinction , a pass and distinction are very different. I did say they would need that just to be considered, they still needed an audition on top.

2) I didn't say you could exchange I said they were considered the same level.

HiToAll

and condescending opening post of the day goes to.........

ThumbRemote

Cakeguts wrote: »

Now grade 8 is not the standard for music college entrance. To pass an audition to a top music college you have to be a much much higher standard of playing than grade 8

It's intriguing that you still measure the musical ability required to enter a top music college with reference to the grading structure. "Much higher than grade 8" is still more meaningful than "really really good", which it would be if there were no grades.

Also, you jump from saying "music college" to "top music college". Are you implying that there are some colleges where grade 8 would be roughly the right standard?

missbiggles1

Cakeguts wrote: »

What happened years ago doesn't apply to people who might be wanting to pay for grade exams now.

Now grade 8 is not the standard for music college entrance. To pass an audition to a top music college you have to be a much much higher standard of playing than grade 8 I know the information says that you should have reached grade 8 but it doesn't say when. The people auditioning for a top music college could have done it by the age of 12. By the time they audition they will be a much much higher standard than that. Standards of playing have risen and competition for places is high.

Regarding the A levels and grade 8. You have to be careful not to confuse the education level 3 qualifications with what you can use the qualification for. So for example you can't exchange an A level for grade 8. A university wouldn't accept 2 A levels and grade 8 instead of 3 A levels.

There is a system in place for university courses like music that if someone doesn't have the grade passes their teacher can write to the university and confirm that the student is of the correct standard. UK universities accept international students who don't take grades.

Perhaps not but ABRSM grades do count as UCAS points.

http://gb.abrsm.org/en/our-exams/information-and-regulations/exam-accreditation-and-ucas-points/#

Rosemary7391

The precise standard needed for entry to a music college is going to depend on the instrument to some extent as well. No good saying "grade 8 by age 12" if they were only just big enough to pick the thing up by then...

I don't think people are getting anything other than what they expect with a grade exam. They pay their money, make their preparations, they get assessed by an examiner against the established standard, and get the results back, hopefully with a certificate. If they only want it for something else, they ought to check that out beforehand because it's impossible to generalize to every activity.

Personally, I intend to take my grade 8 eventually, because I'd like to be assessed at that standard. Simple as that! I don't think it's fair to include the cost of tuition or music in the exam cost - you'd be paying for that anyway if you're learning (and if you're not, you turned up for the wrong exam!). It's also a good excuse to learn to work with an accompanist (which, properly done, can be thought of as ensemble work, especially in higher grades with some pieces).

Lavendyr

Cakeguts wrote: »

The point of the post is that these exams are not cheap. Grade 8 in 2016 cost £87 plus the lessons to learn the music and the cost of buying the music plus the cost of employing a pianist to play the accompaniment if it isn't a piano exam. Because of all the myths surrounding these exams some people appear to think that taking them is a necessary part of learning a musical instrument. If you don't take any of these exams you will save £100s and not lose out on anything. As this is a money saving website not doing these exams if you are learning an instrument is a really good way of saving a lot of cash.

So don't take them then. As I said. Simples. Not really sure what your point is. If you think they have no value, don't do 'em.

Cakeguts

missbiggles1 wrote: »

Perhaps not but ABRSM grades do count as UCAS points.

http://gb.abrsm.org/en/our-exams/information-and-regulations/exam-accreditation-and-ucas-points/#

Yes you do get UCAS points but most universities don't accept them from grades.

Cakeguts

ThumbRemote wrote: »

It's intriguing that you still measure the musical ability required to enter a top music college with reference to the grading structure. "Much higher than grade 8" is still more meaningful than "really really good", which it would be if there were no grades.

Also, you jump from saying "music college" to "top music college". Are you implying that there are some colleges where grade 8 would be roughly the right standard?

There are some establishments that call themselves music colleges but which are actually the music departments of universities. However even with these you can't get in by just having grade 8 you have to audition. But grade 8 is nearer to the audition standard than at a top music college. You wouldn't expect to be able to get a playing job though if you went to one of these music departments because you wouldn't be able to get up to the standard needed. If you go to one of these university music departments you can expect to not get a job in music.

For the top music colleges grade 8 is nowhere near the standard needed to pass the audition. The playing standard is much much higher than that required to pass grade 8.

You don't need to have taken any grades to get a place at music college because the entry is by audition. What I was trying to point out is that because the audition standards for a top music college are so high they don't have any relationship to the standard required to pass grade 8. So whether you have passed grade 8 or not doesn't make any difference as to whether you pass the audition or not.

Cakeguts

Rosemary7391 wrote: »

The precise standard needed for entry to a music college is going to depend on the instrument to some extent as well. No good saying "grade 8 by age 12" if they were only just big enough to pick the thing up by then...

I don't think people are getting anything other than what they expect with a grade exam. They pay their money, make their preparations, they get assessed by an examiner against the established standard, and get the results back, hopefully with a certificate. If they only want it for something else, they ought to check that out beforehand because it's impossible to generalize to every activity.

Personally, I intend to take my grade 8 eventually, because I'd like to be assessed at that standard. Simple as that! I don't think it's fair to include the cost of tuition or music in the exam cost - you'd be paying for that anyway if you're learning (and if you're not, you turned up for the wrong exam!). It's also a good excuse to learn to work with an accompanist (which, properly done, can be thought of as ensemble work, especially in higher grades with some pieces).

You have to include the costs of the lessons because they are in preparation for an exam. You wouldn't do these lessons if you were not preparing for an exam. If you are doing an exam you are limited to learning what is on the syllabus for a certain time. This might not be what is the best thing to be spending your time on. Taking exams slows progress.