Music grades

Caroline_a

Cakeguts wrote: »

Because this is a money saving website and because many adults don't realise that all you get from a grade exam is a certificate I started this thread so that if anyone was thinking about paying for a grade exam either for themselves or a child they would know what they would be getting for their money and not all the other things that people with vested interests or just lack of knowledge might tell them they would get.

You get a certificate that is all. The actual test is something that a good teacher could do as part of a lesson.

Unless I'm mistaken, a certificate is all you get from any exam, be it a music grade, GCSE, A Level or degree.

HiToAll

Caroline_a wrote: »

Unless I'm mistaken, a certificate is all you get from any exam, be it a music grade, GCSE, A Level or degree.

yes, but the OP doesnt have the hump for some unknown reason with any of these examination boards.

peachyprice

So, OP, I had a quick look on UCAS for entry requirements, it was very interesting:

Aberdeen :

Candidates should have Grade VIII Associated Board (or equivalent), in their main instrument/voice or who show great potential and intend to take Grade VIII. A minimum of 3 GCSE passes also required.

Bath

Music (ABRSM, Guildhall,LCMM, trinity, Rockschool)
General information on subjects/grades required for entry:
Applicants must have, or be working towards Grade 8 Music Practical in first instrument study and have or expected to achieve a minimum of Grade 5 Music Theory before joining our undergraduate programme.

Birmingham:

Information:
Music Technology A-level or any Music BTEC qualifications will not be accepted as a substitute for Music A-level. However, they will form part of your wider offer if you are studying Music A-level or grade 7-8 ABRSM Theory.

Birmingham Conservatoire:

nformation:
In addition to academic qualifications, all applicants must demonstrate a standard in their first study equivalent to that of the Associated Board's Grade VIII (Distinction): this may be demonstrated at audition, on audition recordings or through the submission of a composition portfolio.

Brunel

Brunel University London will make offers when the following qualifications are combined with others
Music (ABRSM, Guildhall,LCMM, trinity, Rockschool)
General information on subjects/grades required for entry:
Grade 8 or equivalent standard

And that's just the A's and B'...................But hey, you just keep telling yourself they're a waste of time and money.

Cakeguts

Malthusian wrote: »

This thread is eerily familiar to me as someone who studied karate for many years when I was young. There is a certain type of student who has practised for many years and who delights in telling their juniors how being a black belt in karate doesn't make you any good, and is in fact downright average, something any idiot could achieve. This will then be followed by an unsolicited elaboration of how many further karate gradings they have passed (after you pass 1st dan and get your black belt, there is then 2nd dan, 3rd dan etc) or how many tournaments they have competed in, to prove how superior they are to 1st dan and how little the bog-standard black belt is worth.

It is perfectly true that a 1st dan black belt is not the end of karate instruction, more the end of the beginning. In the same way as I gather grade 8 instrument is not the end of musical learning but only the beginning for someone who wants to be a professional musician or even a half-decent amateur performer. But it is not particularly useful to point this out to a white belt (a complete beginner) for whom black belt is still a perfectly good aspiration. A 1st dan black belt is still better at his art than 99% of the population and for a beginner or someone in the lower grades, it does no-one any good to tell them that black belts are worthless. If they practise for a few years and achieve black belt they will have improved in strength and ability considerably from where they are now. Whether they want to go higher than 1st dan is a bridge they can cross when they come to it.

There is however a certain section of martial arts students - and probably in other disciplines as well - who prefer to look down on those below them rather than look up to those stronger.

OP, you're clearly a terrific professional musician, much better than any of us and much better than those dumb ol' grade 8s. Happy?

It is absolutely nothing to do with this. The point that people miss about the grades is that you don't ever need to take any of them to do what ever you want in music. They are not a necessary part of learning an instrument. They do not apply to standards of music playing in any ensemble they do not lead onto anything. They are not general music qualifications. They are only qualifications in grades not any other part of music playing. No one ever has to take them but the problem is that people mistakenly think that you do have to take them. There are several answers on here that imply that you do need them for something which is wrong you don't.

Cakeguts

peachyprice wrote: »

So, OP, I had a quick look on UCAS for entry requirements, it was very interesting:

Aberdeen :


Bath



Birmingham:



Birmingham Conservatoire:



Brunel


And that's just the A's and B'...................But hey, you just keep telling yourself they're a waste of time and money.

None of these say you will not be offered a place if you haven't taken grade 8. Working towards something isn't the same as passing something. You won't get a place at Birmingham Conservatoire based on passing grade 8. Entry is by audition. Equivalent standard doesn't mean that you have to have taken grade 8 and should have reached the standard also doesn't mean that you need to have taken grade 8.

Entry is by audition. Otherwise there is no way they can tell the difference between someone who took grade 8 at 14 and then gave up playing and someone who took grade 8 just before they applied to join the course.

peachyprice

Cakeguts wrote: »

None of these say you will not be offered a place if you haven't taken grade 8. Working towards something isn't the same as passing something. You won't get a place at Birmingham Conservatoire based on passing grade 8. Entry is by audition. Equivalent standard doesn't mean that you have to have taken grade 8 and should have reached the standard also doesn't mean that you need to have taken grade 8.

Really? What do these words mean then?

Candidates should have Grade VIII Associated Board (or equivalent)

Applicants must have, or be working towards Grade 8 Music Practical

all applicants must demonstrate a standard in their first study equivalent to that of the Associated Board's Grade VIII (Distinction)

General information on subjects/grades required for entry:
Grade 8 or equivalent standard

You won't get offered a place based on an audition alone, there is a need to be able to demonstrate that you are able to study. An audition is in addition to other qualifications, without the correct entry requirements (of grade 8 of equivalent) you wouldn't even get an audition.

Entry is by audition. Otherwise there is no way they can tell the difference between someone who took grade 8 at 14 and then gave up playing and someone who took grade 8 just before they applied to join the course.

Erm, I believe the dates are on the certificate, no? Surely it would be obvious.

Cakeguts

Candidates should have is different to candidates must have passed grade 8. As I said before you get a reference from your teacher. Working towards doesn't mean have passed. Working towards could be interpreted as learning the pieces from the syllabus it doesn't say please provide the date of the exam. Demonstrate means in the audition it doesn't mean that you have to have taken the exam. Grade 8 or equivalent standard means an equivalent standard provided in a reference is just as good it doesn't say you have to take grade 8.

The date of the exam is on the certificate but the date of someone giving up playing after grade 8 isn't going to be noted anywhere if someone could get onto a course based purely on having passed grade 8 or getting a distinction in grade 8 which is why there are auditions.

Before you ask people do take grade 8 get a distinction and then give up.

NBLondon

peachyprice wrote: »

You won't get offered a place based on an audition alone, there is a need to be able to demonstrate that you are able to study. An audition is in addition to other qualifications, without the correct entry requirements (of grade 8 of equivalent) you wouldn't even get an audition.

Like Billy Elliott? (We never saw him take an exam). It might be possible to get a place on recommendation and audition alone if a) the recommending teacher is known to the admissions tutor and b) the audition is spectacular. But that's a very rare instance! If the course is over-subscribed (which it will be if the institution is good) then those with no other evidence to show they have reached the standard will go straight to the bottom of the pile for auditions.

peachyprice

Cakeguts wrote: »

Candidates should have is different to candidates must have passed grade 8. As I said before you get a reference from your teacher. Working towards doesn't mean have passed. Working towards could be interpreted as learning the pieces from the syllabus it doesn't say please provide the date of the exam. Demonstrate means in the audition it doesn't mean that you have to have taken the exam. Grade 8 or equivalent standard means an equivalent standard provided in a reference is just as good it doesn't say you have to take grade 8.

The date of the exam is on the certificate but the date of someone giving up playing after grade 8 isn't going to be noted anywhere if someone could get onto a course based purely on having passed grade 8 or getting a distinction in grade 8 which is why there are auditions.

Before you ask people do take grade 8 get a distinction and then give up.

Nobody is saying you will get offered a placed based purely on achieving grade 8, but, as I have demonstrated above with just a handful of universities (one of which does actually say you MUST have grade 8 but you chose to ignore that, and I'm sure there are many others if you check all unis on UCAS) there is an expectation that applicants will either have or be working towards grade 8. If everyone took your advice and stopped taking grades they would be severely restricted when looking for a music course.

No matter which way you want to dress it up taking exams up to grade 8 will give an applicant and advantage over someone who hasn't, saying they could have taken it in primary school then given up is a complete red herring, that person would be highly unlikely to applying for a music course in the first place if they haven't played for 10 years.

Caroline_a

Adult learners apart, I don't see any reason at all why you would not let youngsters do grades. At best it will look good on their UCAS form, whether they do music in their tertiary education or not, at worst it will cost their parents a small amount of money (in the grand scheme of things).

Obviously the OP has a big chip about grades, and nothing that anyone else says will alter that. However, the rest of us appear to agree that they are a good thing, including those of us who have been through them.

Not sure if the OP has children of his/her own who are learning an instrument, but if you had, why would you potentially disadvantage that child by refusing to put them through the grades because of what is quite a paltry sum of money, and often is paid for by schools?