Music grades

indsty

For the vast majority of children, when they start having music lessons they have no real expectation of making music a career. They get a real sense of satisfaction from "passing" each grade whether it be grade 1 or grade 8. They love getting their certificate and feel a great sense of accomplishment. No parent at that stage feels that the "grade certificate" is necessary.

If and when the child decides music is their life career then having the grades can only be of benefit to show their hard work, dedication and skill. They may well also need to pass auditions etc to get where they want - but that does not mean their grade certificates are of no benefit or a rip-off as the OP insists. (Wish they would stop insisting then I wouldn't have had to stick my oar in and lengthen this fairly boring run of posts)!

Cakeguts

I started this thread for the benefit of any adults or parents who feel that their music teacher or their child's music teacher is applying pressure for them to pay for a grade exam. Some people find these grade exams expensive. This doesn't seem to apply the people who have posted on this thread but that doesn't mean that nobody finds them expensive.

For the benefit of those parents or adult learners there is no reason why you have to take these exams. You can achieve anything you want to do in music without ever taking a grade exam. They are optional extras in learning a musical instrument.

When you take a grade exam you have to learn a set of pieces, studies and scales. There is no time limit set on how long you can take to learn the pieces, study and scales. The only time limit that might affect this is the change of pieces on a syllabus for any specific year. So it is quite possible to spend 2 to 3 years just learning the pieces for a grade exam. ( Some teachers use the grade exams as a structure for their teaching so your child will only spend time learning grade pieces and will not explore any other repertoire.) When you buy the music for the exam there is an option to buy a CD with the music that has a recording of the pieces that are set for the exam. This means that some children just copy what is on the CD and don't learn to properly read the music for the exam. This not learning to read music is a problem if you live in the UK because music making in the UK relies on very good sight reading and if your child or you as an adult are not learning to read music you are going to be at a big disadvantage if you want to play in any sort of ensemble group.

The grade exams do not test the following. Following a conductor, sight reading an inner part, listening to multiple other parts in an ensemble, playing with other people the same standard, finding the way back if you get lost, tuning your note in a chord with other instruments that are not tuned to equal temperament, being able to count and play complicated rhythms if you are not playing the lead part. These are all skills needed to play in an ensemble and grade exams do not test these so you can't use a grade exam to give an example of a standard needed for ensemble playing because grade exams do not test ensemble skills.

What grade exams do test. They test how someone plays what is set for the exam. Marks are given for this "how someone plays." There is no such thing as grade 8 pieces. The grade is how the pieces are played not the standard of the written music. So a grade exam tests how someone plays the pieces, studies, scales there are variations as to what you have to do depending on the board The other boards are not dodgy examining boards they are just alternatives. For exams other than piano and guitar there needs to be a pianist to play the accompaniment for the pieces. The pianist needs to be of a much higher playing standard than the person taking the exam. Often the piano part is harder to play than the pieces being examined and the pianist has to be able to continue to play even if the person being examined makes a mistake. Often you have a situation where the accompanist is in charge of the situation not the person taking the exam. The grade exams increase in difficult by adding notes. However without knowing which exam someone has taken it is impossible to tell the difference between someone who is a good ensemble player but has only leaned enough notes to take grade 4 and someone who as taken grade 8 but never played in an ensemble. What this means is that you can't tell generally how someone plays from which grade they took last. You only have a rough idea of how they played the pieces set for the exam but nothing else because they might only have ever learned exam pieces and no other repertoire.

It would be quite possible for a teacher to do the test of "how someone plays") in a lesson without the extra expense of paying for someone else (the examiner) to do it. The teacher has to know how someone plays to make sure that they have taught the pieces well enough for the student to pass the exam. I am sure most teachers could print off a certificate if that is what the child wants.

Regarding studying music at university. University music groups are often open to any students studying any subject. This means that it is quite possible (and has happened) for a music student to never play in any music groups because there is someone on another course who is a better player. Grade exams make no difference to this situation. It is based on playing standards at university.

Universities that make offers based on A level grades do not count UCAS points from grades. Only universities that make offers based on UCAS points may accept some points from grades. Top universities are only interested in where a student plays for example in a community group. They are not interested in which grades they have. Music students are required to pass an audition to be offered a place. Nowhere have I seen that a student will not be offered a place if they have not passed a grade. This is because many international students do not have grade systems in their countries.

The skills needed to pass any grade exam are only those needed for that exam. Some people can only play the pieces for the grade exam that they played last and when presented with something different can't even attempt it.

No one knows from which grade exam someone passed last whether they are someone who has an extensive learned repertoire or whether they are someone who can only play the grade pieces that they learned for the last grade. This is why grade exams cannot be used as any qualification apart from in comparison to another grade.

The skill levels required to learn grade pieces are very low. The skills required to play in an ensemble and learn other repertoire are much higher but these are not tested by grades. All the grade tests is how you play the set pieces. It appears that people confuse skills required for playing other music repertoire with those required to learn the music for a grade. A grade only tests how you play the set pieces in that exam. If you can only play the required repertoire for the grade 8 exam in the way that the exams requires you to play them you will pass the grade. You may not be able to play any other music.

It appears that much of the confusion surrounding these exams is due to music teachers not explaining properly to parents or adult learners what they are paying for.

agrinnall

You've now told us many times what your view is. Most people disagree with you. Is there any need for you to keep on and on and on..........?

missbiggles1

I'd think that most parents who can afford music tuition would have no problem paying for the exams.

peachyprice

It doesn't matter how many times you repeat yourself OP, nobody is going to change their mind and agree with you.

NBLondon

peachyprice wrote: »

Of course, people could follow your advice, take no grades, not get accepted on a course and fall flat on their faces with their dreams in tatters.

But Britain's Got Talent and X Factor are still available to them....

NBLondon

Cakeguts wrote: »

I started this thread for the benefit of any adults or parents who feel that their music teacher or their child's music teacher is applying pressure for them to pay for a grade exam. Some people find these grade exams expensive. This doesn't seem to apply the people who have posted on this thread but that doesn't mean that nobody finds them expensive.

OK - This is a valid point. If the teacher is pushing for an exam that the learner doesn't want and will never use then it will be demotivating - but as said above, many child learners do find the grades motivating, even if only to compare with siblings or schoolmates. Yes - the exam is an extra cost. But how often does it happen that someone can afford the lessons and the instrument but then struggle for the exam fees? How many cases are "the child wants to make a career in (not pop) music" and how many are "middle-class parents want their child to be creative and/or fully-rounded"?


Yes - just learning the syllabus pieces and the techniques needed for the exams but nothing else is going to be limiting. A tutor who only does that is a poor one. A learner who accepts that and doesn't explore the instrument themselves or ask to learn other material is not a musician - they are probably someone who is being obliged or compelled to learn an instrument. So they are not likely to be getting to Grade 8 or applying to music courses at tertiary level anyway.


Neither I nor my parents paid a penny extra for music lessons or exams when I was a kid. Maybe I was just lucky to grow-up when and where I did but the school or the education board funded it all - weekly lessons, loan of trombone and exam fees. I learnt the ensemble playing skills (which are different to just learning set pieces) in a school orchestra and a youth brass band. The limitations were my musical ability and willingness to practice.

Cakeguts

NBLondon wrote: »

OK - This is a valid point. If the teacher is pushing for an exam that the learner doesn't want and will never use then it will be demotivating - but as said above, many child learners do find the grades motivating, even if only to compare with siblings or schoolmates. Yes - the exam is an extra cost. But how often does it happen that someone can afford the lessons and the instrument but then struggle for the exam fees? How many cases are "the child wants to make a career in (not pop) music" and how many are "middle-class parents want their child to be creative and/or fully-rounded"?


Yes - just learning the syllabus pieces and the techniques needed for the exams but nothing else is going to be limiting. A tutor who only does that is a poor one. A learner who accepts that and doesn't explore the instrument themselves or ask to learn other material is not a musician - they are probably someone who is being obliged or compelled to learn an instrument. So they are not likely to be getting to Grade 8 or applying to music courses at tertiary level anyway.


Neither I nor my parents paid a penny extra for music lessons or exams when I was a kid. Maybe I was just lucky to grow-up when and where I did but the school or the education board funded it all - weekly lessons, loan of trombone and exam fees. I learnt the ensemble playing skills (which are different to just learning set pieces) in a school orchestra and a youth brass band. The limitations were my musical ability and willingness to practice.

To answer two of your points. Regarding middle class parents I think we are all agreed that they can afford to pay for their children to collect certificates for whatever they want to. However not all parents pay for music lessons. There are schemes around where music lessons are provided in deprived areas and it is these parents who I have in mind here. The collecting certificates at school could be compared to having the right brand of trainers. It is hard on children who have parents who can't afford to allow their children to collect certificates. I also have in mind people who are learning an instrument in retirement. They may not have the extra cash to pay for exams that they basically don't need but may feel they have to take.

The second point is that I have come across people who have just learned the pieces from the syllabus and can't play anything else and yes they do take grade 8 and pass. You can pass grade 8 without being able to read music as long as you fail the sight reading everything else can be done from memory. There are also examples of children who take up an instrument take grade 8 (the latest example of these got a distinction) and then give up. These children literally only learn the pieces for grade exams because all they want to do is to pass grade 8 often for the UCAS points. Some of them manage to pass grade 8 two years after starting to learn. Their only reason for taking up an instrument is to get UCAS points so they don't play anything apart from grade pieces. Once you realise that this kind of manipulation of the grade system to get UCAS points is going on you can see why top universities are not interested in which grades someone has passed and are only interested in which groups they play in.

Any music teacher who does not explain to a student that they can get a career in music without taking grade exams is not doing their job properly. All options should be explained not just ones that involve taking exams.

Cakeguts

peachyprice wrote: »

So, OP, I had a quick look on UCAS for entry requirements, it was very interesting:

Aberdeen :


Bath



Birmingham:



Birmingham Conservatoire:



Brunel


And that's just the A's and B'...................But hey, you just keep telling yourself they're a waste of time and money.

Just in case anyone gets confused by this. Bath university doesn't run music courses. The university that does is called Bath Spa University. It isn't highly rated for music. I have seen higher scores for graduate prospects so not a university to attend if you are hoping to work in a degree level job music or any other degree level job. Check graduate prospects.

peachyprice

Oh !!!!!!, give it up OP.