I have a growing feeling that Britain will NOT leave the EU

wotsthat

CLAPTON wrote: »

I believe trade is MUTUALLY BENEFICIAL.

No moral high ground there.

However it does seems particularly distressing when trade, which would help both us and African farmers, is stopped for EU political reasons.

I do in fact have concerns about the welfare of people even if it isn't in my own self interest : however it seems you think that inconceivable.

On the matter of trade with africa, in the same way that some people credit the EU with peace in europe, I do believe that greater prosperity and trade in Africa, would perhaps have brought greater peace there too.

Would've, could've should've arguments are all well and good but we are where we are. I see little change on the horizon for Africans and therefore none of the benefits of trade for us either.

You possibly care but you're in a minority. I've never heard a UK politician rail against the government or EU policies towards Africa. I've never heard anyone, apart from you and a couple of people here parroting, state that Brexit will have any positive affect on Africans.

If you want to do good for Africans then I hope your actions extend beyond voting for Brexit because that will have a negligible effect.

TrickyTree83

wotsthat wrote: »

Would've, could've should've arguments are all well and good but we are where we are. I see little change on the horizon for Africans and therefore none of the benefits of trade for us either.

You possibly care but you're in a minority. I've never heard a UK politician rail against the government or EU policies towards Africa. I've never heard anyone, apart from you and a couple of people here parroting, state that Brexit will have any positive affect on Africans.

If you want to do good for Africans then I hope your actions extend beyond voting for Brexit because that will have a negligible effect.

It's been spoken about in parliament, in particular around the case of Tate & Lyle and the EU's sugar regime, so you could argue it was actually spoken about indirectly. But to pretend it's not an issue that politicians are aware of would be incorrect.

http://www.parliament.uk/business/committees/committees-a-z/lords-select/eu-environment-and-agriculture-sub-committee-d/news/sugar-evidence-27jun12/

http://www.parliament.uk/business/committees/committees-a-z/lords-select/eu-environment-and-agriculture-sub-committee-d/inquiries/parliament-2010/eu-sugar-regime/

the impact on third country producers and potential mitigation that may be required, including why there has been variable disbursement of compensation already made available to mitigate the impact of the earlier reform

CLAPTON

wotsthat wrote: »

Would've, could've should've arguments are all well and good but we are where we are. I see little change on the horizon for Africans and therefore none of the benefits of trade for us either.

You possibly care but you're in a minority. I've never heard a UK politician rail against the government or EU policies towards Africa. I've never heard anyone, apart from you and a couple of people here parroting, state that Brexit will have any positive affect on Africans.

If you want to do good for Africans then I hope your actions extend beyond voting for Brexit because that will have a negligible effect.

it seems that most of your posts see no possibility of change for the better
many will nevertheless continue to believe that change for the better is not only possible but inevitable.

wotsthat

CLAPTON wrote: »

it seems that most of your posts see no possibility of change for the better
many will nevertheless continue to believe that change for the better is not only possible but inevitable.

Paint me a picture. What do you think the inevitable impact of Brexit will be on the peoples of Africa?

CLAPTON

wotsthat wrote: »

Paint me a picture. What do you think the inevitable impact of Brexit will be on the peoples of Africa?

No after you, paint me a picture of the benefits/drawbacks of trade within the EU.

mrginge

Jason74 wrote: »

I also think that whatever is decided is likely to be so controversial and divisive that failing to agree a final position via a second referendum (and I think at that point, a "hard brexit", "soft brexit", or "forget the whole thing" are all possible outcomes) would be almost as damaging to our democracy as ignoring the initial vote and not starting the A50 process that now surely has to begin.

Most of your assessment is very reasonable.

Do you believe that our negotiating position would be strengthened or weakened by a requirement to hold a second referendum?

If a proposed deal was rejected, what would be the next step?

wotsthat

CLAPTON wrote: »

No after you, paint me a picture of the benefits/drawbacks of trade within the EU.

You've been so keen to talk about African farmers and now you've been asked what you think the effect of Brexit will be on them you've gone all coy. What's up?

My picture is fairly simple. The world won't end because of Brexit and there's no reason why the UK will go from successful to non-successful. I expect we're going to be worse of than we otherwise would have been but it'll be difficult/ impossible to prove. I'm sure we'll engage in some first world arguments such as Conrad stating self-driving cars are a result of Brexit and someone else saying the cars would've been better if we stayed in the EU.

However, the impact of Brexit on African farmers will be negligible. Progress will continue to lift people out of poverty but, in general, those who are getting the shaft now will probably still be getting it in 10 years time too.

The whole Brexit thing is nothing more than an attempt to reduce immigration via a self indulgent exercise in navel gazing.

TrickyTree83

wotsthat wrote: »

The whole Brexit thing is nothing more than an attempt to reduce immigration via a self indulgent exercise in navel gazing.

Broad brush there.

How do you account for those (like me) who voted to leave the EU primarily to take advantage of trade relations with the rest of the world that we currently don't have, as well as the problematic "democracy" of the EU institutions?

Also, don't mistake arguing for those who do have concerns over immigration having the right to be heard with agreeing with their point of view. If these people feel that it is a legitimate concern, it's their right to exercise their vote in that manner. Who are we to say they are wrong having not walked in their shoes?

CLAPTON

wotsthat wrote: »

You've been so keen to talk about African farmers and now you've been asked what you think the effect of Brexit will be on them you've gone all coy. What's up?

My picture is fairly simple. The world won't end because of Brexit and there's no reason why the UK will go from successful to non-successful. I expect we're going to be worse of than we otherwise would have been but it'll be difficult/ impossible to prove. I'm sure we'll engage in some first world arguments such as Conrad stating self-driving cars are a result of Brexit and someone else saying the cars would've been better if we stayed in the EU.

However, the impact of Brexit on African farmers will be negligible. Progress will continue to lift people out of poverty but, in general, those who are getting the shaft now will probably still be getting it in 10 years time too.

The whole Brexit thing is nothing more than an attempt to reduce immigration via a self indulgent exercise in navel gazing.

would the EU without free(ish) trade make a negligible difference to the people of europe?

Herzlos

CLAPTON wrote: »

would the EU without free(ish) trade make a negligible difference to the people of europe?

No it'd make a significant difference. What's that got to do with your beloved African farmers - how will us leaving the EU / Single market help them?