I have a growing feeling that Britain will NOT leave the EU

TrickyTree83

ruggedtoast wrote: »

You can tootle on with your jingoism. The people on the sharp end of the armed forces are disproportionately the working classes who are being sent off to fight in wars that have nothing whatsoever to do with protecting "me and mine", or them and theirs.

With the notable exception of Sierra Leone and Bosnia the UK's military adventures at best have created chaos and a flood of refugees from Libya (which the Brexiteers have the bare faced temerity to blame the EU for) - misery in Afghanistan, and an ignominious running away in Iraq. Now also a hell hole.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/19/britains-vast-new-aircraft-carriers-will-make-enemies-think-twic/



I fail to share Captain Petitt's excitement at the increase in Britain's Mid East bullying, as much as I am sure that it pleases Saudi Arabia.


The Iraqis have yet to find the words to express their gratitude to the UK

I would absolutely agree that we shouldn't be involved in Iraq, Afghanistan and the wider middle east in general.

But lets be clear about under which government we went into Iraq and Afghanistan.

I have no confusion at all that the people who volunteer themselves to serve in our armed forces put their lives on the line with a mind to protecting us at home, and we owe them a debt and respect for that. It is not their fault, or ours, that governments have lied and taken our armed forces into conflicts that we should never have been involved in the first place.

The government that did take us into these wars has been removed, which is the extent of the power of the UK citizen. Those horrid Conservative voters you hate so much.

The Conservatives are not without their faults with regards to the armed forces either. Libya was a mistake, the government responsible for that has been replaced too. With regards to Syria, I would disagree and say that ISIS must be destroyed, there appears to be an international consensus on that point, but certainly not on how to achieve it. I would rather we worked with the Syrian government and Russia to achieve that goal and then worked on the situation in Syria diplomatically.

CLAPTON

ruggedtoast wrote: »

Liberal? Yes I suppose if you think being subverted by the direct intervention of a US President who has personally signed off on drone strikes, that have conservatively killed 2500 civilians in his tenure is "liberal" then maybe it is.

I'm not sure what this has with Ken Loach.

pity that the Labour leadership supports russian bombing in Syria just as they supported the IRA's 'ballotbox and armalite tactics', 40 million dead in China for a socialist utopia and the gulags of USSR.

makes one almost proud of not supporting the racists,antisemites and hypocrites that you support. However being grown up one doesn't support opponents of one's opponents without due cause,