I have a growing feeling that Britain will NOT leave the EU

TrickyTree83

ruggedtoast wrote: »

Yeah. Queues at food banks, national debt in the trillions. at odds with our allies in Europe, £7bn of aircraft carriers filled with American planes to go and bomb America's enemies. The Royals, the Daily Mail, baby George biscuit tins, the Tories... Its a fantastic time in Brexit Britain.


Don't it make you proud? No.


Warning - contains thousands of years of unearned grace and favour privilege requiring adulation and fawning from the serfs

Your misplaced outrage doesn't make it untrue that the carriers will have aircraft on them with people serving on them sworn to protect you and yours.

Herzlos

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

On that particular topic, it's a myth.

The Queen Elizabeth will have 24 F-35B's operating on it in 2018.

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/yes-the-new-carriers-will-have-aircraft/

But your article doesn't say that.

The UK is on target for its new F-35B aircraft to reach initial operating capability by 2018 and expects to have 24 of the jets available for service by the year 2023.

So the carrier will be available from 2017, it'll have some aircraft for 2018, and the full complement of the 24 by 2023. I don't know how many we'll have for 2018 though, but assuming a straight line graph we're looking at about 5/year.

TrickyTree83

Herzlos wrote: »

But your article doesn't say that.



So the carrier will be available from 2017, it'll have some aircraft for 2018, and the full complement of the 24 by 2023. I don't know how many we'll have for 2018 though, but assuming a straight line graph we're looking at about 5/year.

Apologies I misread. There will still be aircraft flying from the carrier in 2018. But we've not purchased a carrier with nothing to put on it have we.

Herzlos

No, we've purchased a carrier that might turn up empty won't be fully stocked for it's first 5 years. But yeah, it's not completely empty

Conrad

ruggedtoast wrote: »

Don't it make you proud?

Yes.
We're re-discovering our confidence as a global player, instead of endless talk and posturing in the EU trade suppression squabble shop.

As Andrew Neil points out, those ships will play a vital role in keeping Europe's oil supplies flowing, another reason the EU needs us onside.


Brexit is the catalyst to make Britain great again, the array of spin-offs and benefits are mind boggling. I feel no shame in us wanting to be the best we can.

Andy_L

Herzlos wrote: »

But your article doesn't say that.



So the carrier will be available from 2017, it'll have some aircraft for 2018, and the full complement of the 24 by 2023. I don't know how many we'll have for 2018 though, but assuming a straight line graph we're looking at about 5/year.

IIRC We currently own 4 F35-Bs, based out in the US while the initial RAF/RN pilots & ground crew are learning how to operate them

ruggedtoast

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

Your misplaced outrage doesn't make it untrue that the carriers will have aircraft on them with people serving on them sworn to protect you and yours.

You can tootle on with your jingoism. The people on the sharp end of the armed forces are disproportionately the working classes who are being sent off to fight in wars that have nothing whatsoever to do with protecting "me and mine", or them and theirs.

With the notable exception of Sierra Leone and Bosnia the UK's military adventures at best have created chaos and a flood of refugees from Libya (which the Brexiteers have the bare faced temerity to blame the EU for) - misery in Afghanistan, and an ignominious running away in Iraq. Now also a hell hole.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/19/britains-vast-new-aircraft-carriers-will-make-enemies-think-twic/

He said he could “certainly see” the vessels used in campaigns against Islamic State in Iraq and Levant (Isil) and expected them to be sent to the Gulf on deployment when ready.

I fail to share Captain Petitt's excitement at the increase in Britain's Mid East bullying, as much as I am sure that it pleases Saudi Arabia.


The Iraqis have yet to find the words to express their gratitude to the UK

Conrad

Toastie, I blame the liberal consensus 'western democracy and nation building' zeal for recent disastrous interventions.


The Arab Spring was cheerlead by pious British BBC reporters (much discussed on Al Jazeera etc) that encouraged Arab peoples to rise up and demand their 'natural liberetarian rights' to a western style democracy and liberty, in other words nation building according to the liberal playbook.


Egypt tried the medicine as urged by the smug Orla Gurin or Lyse Doucet with disastrous consequences. The Egyptians rejected western medicine a year later and put the military back in charge, thank goodness.


The authoritarian liberal consensus produces so many toxic outcomes. The EU is the embodiment of this foisting of the liberal doctrine on unwilling peoples


I'm a liberal - to be clear I'm a libertarian in many regards. My beef is with smug, sanctimonious liberalism that has a warped sense of right and wrong.


Ken Loach is a prime malevolent lefty liberal, distorting reality in a really underhand manner in order to re-educate us with lies. His whole outlook is rendered irrelevant by his profound naivety

ruggedtoast

Conrad wrote: »

Toastie, I blame the liberal consensus 'western democracy and nation building' zeal for recent disastrous interventions.


The Arab Spring was cheerlead by pious British BBC reporters (much discussed on Al Jazeera etc) that encouraged Arab peoples to rise up and demand their 'natural liberetarian rights' to a western style democracy and liberty, in other words nation building according to the liberal playbook.


Egypt tried the medicine as urged by the smug Orla Gurin or Lyse Doucet with disastrous consequences. The Egyptians rejected western medicine a year later and put the military back in charge, thank goodness.


The authoritarian liberal consensus produces so many toxic outcomes. The EU is the embodiment of this foisting of the liberal doctrine on unwilling peoples


I'm a liberal - to be clear I'm a libertarian in many regards. My beef is with smug, sanctimonious liberalism that has a warped sense of right and wrong.


Ken Loach is a prime malevolent lefty liberal, distorting reality in a really underhand manner in order to re-educate us with lies. His whole outlook is rendered irrelevant by his profound naivety

Liberal? Yes I suppose if you think being subverted by the direct intervention of a US President who has personally signed off on drone strikes, that have conservatively killed 2500 civilians in his tenure is "liberal" then maybe it is.

I'm not sure what this has with Ken Loach.

mrginge

ruggedtoast wrote: »

The people on the sharp end of the armed forces are disproportionately the working classes who are being sent off to fight in wars that have nothing whatsoever to do with protecting "me and mine", or them and theirs.

Could this be the first indication of ruggeds impending defection to the new party of the working class?

I wonder if his great friends chukka and Liz know that he's chucking the towel in and joining UKIP.