Am I just an 'old fashioned' thinker

splishsplash

We have a saying here - 'It's not off the floor they licked it'.
Other versions: 'You teach people how to treat you'; 'The problem with putting others first is you teach them you come second'; 'You reap what you sow' etc.

Your sister's style of parenting means her kids now treat her like dirt. That's sad, but it's really her own doing and something the kids will probably grow out of in a year or two when they realize how badly they're behaving now. They sound like basically decent people who have been let get away with murder. The bins fiasco is a case in point - I think most teenagers would rue the day they dared be so insolent to a parent, if most parents feel like I do about things like that.

Is there a large age gap between you? You describe very different attitudes to children/parenting, as if you come from different generations.

To answer your question? Yes, you probably are a little old-fashioned in your thinking. I think most people 'nowadays' like to consult and involve their teenagers rather than deciding things for them.

I think, if I were you, I would be miffed but think it was par for the course.

missbiggles1

balletshoes wrote: »

this is what I do too, with my 14-year old. I tell her in plenty of time that we have plans which she is included in, and thats that.

Doesn't that rather contradict your earlier post?

FBaby

Yes, you probably are a little old-fashioned in your thinking. I think most people 'nowadays' like to consult and involve their teenagers rather than deciding things for them

It sounds like this was a one-off in that the problem is the kids doing what they want all the time, and exceptionally, the sister wanted her kids to do a family thing all together, but when she did, they threw it back at her face, and instead of confronting them and making it clear that on this occasion, backing out wasn't an option, she went along with it, hence giving them the message that it is ok to be rude, inconsiderate and selfish with no consequences for it.

It is kids like this who become adults who thing the world owes them everything, have tantrums when they don't get their way, and end up suffering from anxiety and depression when they still don't because they've never learnt to cope situation when they are forced to do things they don't want to.

itsanne

duchy wrote: »

The bin thing is easy. The next time he wants a lift, clothes washed, etc a big smile and a reminder she isn't paid to do these things so isn't doing it.

As a good sister you should be backing her and following the same route of course.

First part spot on! I have reservations about the second part though, depending on what you mean. Certainly swingaloo shouldn't undermine her sister by doing anything her sister won't (eg giving a lift after not taking the bins out), but I don't think she should then be unco-operative in a more pro-active way (eg I saw you didn't take the bins out for your mum last week so I'm not going to do x). That would impact on her own relationship with her niece and nephew and wouldn't be necessary if her sister would take control. A few times of her sister acting as you suggest would very quickly solve that aspect of her children's behaviour.

swingaloo

securityguy wrote: »

"Her dietry choices are not 'singled out' I just commented that I had gone to a particular effort to get and prepare something she would enjoy."

Yeah. Just in case the scroll wheel on your mouse is broken, you actually said "The daughter is a fussy eater".

I

I dont think there is any need to be rude. There is nothing wrong with my mouse thanks.

I did put she is a fussy eater and that is true.
She is not fussy because she is vegetarian, she is fussy because no matter what is on offer (veggie option included) she will always want something different and make a fuss about how it is cooked and presented. Too be honest, she is a bit of a prima donna.

Thank you for your comment but please dont assume that I dont know what I am writing. Any constructive advise is always welcome but rudeness is not necessary thanks.

swingaloo

itsanne wrote: »

First part spot on! I have reservations about the second part though, depending on what you mean. Certainly swingaloo shouldn't undermine her sister by doing anything her sister won't (eg giving a lift after not taking the bins out), but I don't think she should then be unco-operative in a more pro-active way (eg I saw you didn't take the bins out for your mum last week so I'm not going to do x). That would impact on her own relationship with her niece and nephew and wouldn't be necessary if her sister would take control. A few times of her sister acting as you suggest would very quickly solve that aspect of her children's behaviour.

Thank you for your comments, I appreciate you taking the time.

I am walking a fine line as I am trying to support my sister but also keep the kids onside as I dont want to alienate them.
She has constantly given in to them as small children and they now have this sense of entitlement to the point where they treat her like dirt.
We have seen this day coming for ages, she always siad they would get easier as they get older but myself and other sister have always thought that if she didnt get their respect whilst they were younger it would be far harder to start later when they get even more headstrong.

She is a very tiny lady and both of them tower over her which dosent help, she simply has given in to keep the peace so often that its become the way of life.

She has tried the 'Im not doing anything for you' thing. If she refuses to iron or cook then the daughter will step in and do both her and the sons meals and ironing. The son will just not bother and snack on biscuits etc, he would never cook for himself. On one occasion she refused to bring cups and glasses downstairs for them and let them run out of clean ones (apart from one she kept for herself) hoping they would finally bring them down and wash them. What happened was- the son put all those in his room onto the floor on the landing as they were in his words 'stinking the bedroom out', the daughter took hers down to the kitchen but still didnt wash them. They drank milk form the bottle and just dug heels in till sister again backed down and did them.

Im just so frustrated by it all, its an awful situation and I could shake all three of them. Her life is being made hell by her children and the kids must be equally unhappy in their own way. To outsiders they look like lovely children and put on this united front with mum when we are at 'wider family occasion' but there is always that underlying tension that others dont always notice.

For instance, at the last family party we went to the daughter announced that she 'wanted to go home now (8.15pm) as she didnt like the music' (It was an 80s disco held for a cousins 21st). Sis told her 'We are staying till about 9.30/10 ish then we will go. Daughter smiled sweetly and said ok in front of everyone round the table but then ranted all the way home once they got in the car and when they got home and took their shoes off she picked up hers mums shoes and threw them out into the street in temper.

Unbelievable behaviour but run of the mill for the household at the moment.

swingaloo

splishsplash wrote: »

We have a saying here - 'It's not off the floor they licked it'.
Other versions: 'You teach people how to treat you'; 'The problem with putting others first is you teach them you come second'; 'You reap what you sow' etc.

Your sister's style of parenting means her kids now treat her like dirt. That's sad, but it's really her own doing and something the kids will probably grow out of in a year or two when they realize how badly they're behaving now. They sound like basically decent people who have been let get away with murder. The bins fiasco is a case in point - I think most teenagers would rue the day they dared be so insolent to a parent, if most parents feel like I do about things like that.

Is there a large age gap between you? You describe very different attitudes to children/parenting, as if you come from different generations.

To answer your question? Yes, you probably are a little old-fashioned in your thinking. I think most people 'nowadays' like to consult and involve their teenagers rather than deciding things for them.

I think, if I were you, I would be miffed but think it was par for the course.

Thank you for the reply. Yes there is an age gap of ten years between us and that is compounded by the fact that I had my children in my late teens and early twenties whilst she was late 30s when she had her 2 so that make a huge gap as well. I do understand, and agree, that teenagers should be consulted and arrangements should be made to consider them all but its the way they seem to bully her thats so upsetting. But I also feel that she has always allowed them too many choices and too much power and that it has now backfired on her.

Sometimes I just think it is so ridiculous but at the same time I also fear for her safety sometimes as she has told me that her son has actually twisted her arm when she tried to get the tv remote off him as he had turned the tv off whilst she was watching something and I know on another occasion he had pushed her over in the bathroom so Im genuinely worried about all of them.

swingaloo

LKRDN_Morgan wrote: »

So surely the bigger question would be 'how can I help my sister who's having to live with a potentially violent teenager' instead of moaning about having to make a separate veggie meal for a 14 year old who's mind changes like the wind.

Seems like not all the replies agreed with you so now you're having to juice up the story.
Probably better to put your energy into helping her rather than wondering why some kids turn out one way whereas yours turned out another way

Oh for goodness sake, what is it with you? Im not ,juicing up the story' Im just adding more detail as the conversation has progressed. It wasnt necessary to go into so much detail in my opening post. Theres a lot more I could add but there is no need.
I have no need to 'juice anything up'.

You refer to the kids as 'yours'. they are not mine, so again you are jumping in with nasty remarks rather than reading the thread properly.

Now as you are only on here to make snide remarks rather than give advice (probably as you have nothing constructive to add) would you please take yourself off to someone elses thread s you clearly are of no use here.

I will never understand why people bother coming on to threads just to try to make themselves look clever with put downs. Please get a hobby if you are so bored.

LKRDN_Morgan

swingaloo wrote: »

You refer to the kids as 'yours'. they are not mine, so again you are jumping in with nasty remarks rather than reading the thread properly..

I never said the niece and nephew were yours. I was referring to your own kids as stated repeatedly in your OP. Or maybe it's you that needs to read the thread properly?

swingaloo wrote: »

My kids are grown up and were brought up in what was quite a different era when children had more respect for authority. Im firmly in the camp of thinking that if you set boundaries and adhere to them when children are younger rather than letting them run rings round you then you are in a better position when the 'rebellious' teenage years come around.
But, I raised mine some years ago when there was discipline at school and rules were rules so maybe my way of thinking just does not hold water
I had mine in the days when you just said 'You are going and thats that!

swingaloo wrote: »

Oh for goodness sake, what is it with you? Im not ,juicing up the story' Im just adding more detail as the conversation has progressed. It wasnt necessary to go into so much detail in my opening post. Theres a lot more I could add but there is no need.
I have no need to 'juice anything up'.



Now as you are only on here to make snide remarks rather than give advice (probably as you have nothing constructive to add) would you please take yourself off to someone elses thread s you clearly are of no use here.

I will never understand why people bother coming on to threads just to try to make themselves look clever with put downs. Please get a hobby if you are so bored.

Yes you're right. Nothing constructive to add like focus your energy into helping what sounds like quite a serious situation instead of complaining about how put out you were when they didn't turn up

I never understand why people post on an open forum then get upset when the replies don't pat them on back. If all you wanted to hear was your own opinion then it's probably best to have this conversation facing a mirror.

swingaloo

Than k you to all the posters who have added useful and constructive advice. Im neither bitter nor a gossip and Im not 'having a go' at any of my relatives. Im just someone who is worried about a situation concerning close family.

I am happy to listen to anything that is helpful and constructive, it does not have to agree with me hence the title of the thread.

However I will ask the mods to close the thread as certain sad people seem to be on a mission to derail it and turn it into some sort of vendetta, which is not the purpose of the forums and quite frankly childish and unnecessary but I suppose there are plenty of people with too much time on their hands and nothing better to do than use what time they do have to be rude to others from behind a keyboard.

Thank you to the genuine decent people on here.