Changing habits, wanting freedom

jvr

Thanks I think I might set up a new email address and get the free trial over Christmas when I have time to actually go through it all and set up properly. Its amazing what you have achieved in such a short amount of time.


Thanks bit gutted as I felt I was doing so well this month but hey ho need to look through and work out where I went wrong so I can do better next month!

brizzledfw

Have a great Christmas jvr and here's to a brilliant 2017 for you xx

jvr

Hi Brizzle... Merry Christmas! Reminds me I must get that tree up tomorrow!


So for anyone around have 2 questions... firstly does anyone use goodbudget I'm getting confused with my envelopes. For example I have too much allocated for envelopes this month because of paying back overdraft and driving lessons, but hopefully soon won't be paying in to them. However have put my debt as a year long savings goal and it tells me I have to pay off a certain amount each month, can I pay less in than it tells me I need and then pay more in future months is that how it works adding up the money in each pot and accumulating the money? But then it looks like my budget is too large for my income? Or do I set the savings pot for my debt lower and then increase it at a later date so it all adds up nicely? I am probably making no sense here......


Secondly is some debt that is totally OH he has an outfit and argos card that he has built up about £300 on, now all credit card debt is on 0% so should I use our joint money for debt repayment to pay this off as it is obviously costing money as long as he promises not to use them anymore or am I being daft when he needs to learn.... but if I do a joint budget for us and put his money in envelopes he won't have any spare to go to that so I would need to incorporate it into our debt! It's not on my signature as I consider it his own stupid fault! I know for a fact my Christmas present and birthday present are all on that card which means the money my mum and dad gave towards my birthday present (it was joint from the three of them) just went in his pocket as he 'was going to pay the card off' so I feel a bit resentful having to add that debt to our main one....

MistyMountainTop

Without trying to be harsh, I think your OH needs to have the situation smack him in the face before he will realise exactly what is his responsibility and what he needs to do about it.

Clearly he's not listening to you or taking on board what you are saying to him. The more you take care of things, the more he will let them slide or be happy to go on as he has been doing. It can turn into a mother/child relationship that both people resent. I know all too well that this is easier said than done. I tried to get my hub on board for years, and was so discouraged as he seemed to brush off everything I was saying about our finances. It took his family humiliating him before he really understood.

I do think the idea of doing a budget together is a good one, less of "my money - your money" and more of "our money" can only be a good thing. For me and my hub it was a real turning point in our relationship, the finances had been causing a huge strain on our marriage.

I had similar confusion with both Goodbudget and YNAB. I don't know why I'm not getting it.

jvr

Thanks Misty helps to have confirmation that my feeling is right on this - I get easily soft and give in all too often!
So plan is to sit him down with goodbudget and make a plan also set him up with spare bank account for petrol etc so its separate to his spending money. He will then hopefully have an idea where all money goes. Will leave him with the debt for now and I think if he gets on board and limits his spending to his budget we will look at paying it off together ... the amount I am thinking he will get to play with won't be enough to pay it off! If he doesn't get on-board then I have a large patio I can easily bury him under.... !!
Sadly his family won't help as they are part of the problem... spent a good year paying his mums rent and she seems to think since we live in England we have money to burn compared to South Africa!... baring in mind I technically bought both her and his sisters cars and can't afford my own when I pass my test!
Wow I sound really bitter... I don't mean to and there is a lot more to that story than I have explained its just I can't rant to anyone else about it all so seems to come out on here recently

MistyMountainTop

Oh dear... I can relate to this as well and it's not a nice situation. When you were paying his mum's rent and for her and the sister's cars, where was the money coming from? His spends, your spends, joint funds? What sort of income do they have? Do they actually know you are not rolling in money? Is your father in law still around or does your OH feel he's the 'man in the family'?

My hub's two younger sisters came to him for handouts all the time. We'd be eating beans on toast while he paid their mobile phone bills and gave them money for petrol or rent if they were a bit short. He couldn't see that their lifestyle was far above ours and he was 'enabling' them to live beyond their means while we could only afford the basics. This was not too long before the electricity incident but had been going on since they were teenagers, they knew hub was always good for a bob or two if they pleaded poverty. He was trying to be kind, he wanted them to know they could always count on their big brother and I think he felt somewhat obligated to help them out.

We all were having Christmas dinner with his parents and the sisters were trying to one-up each other when the subject of salaries came up. It turned out they each earned more than hub and I combined. I politely but clearly said "Well as you are both doing so well, you won't need to come to us for handouts anymore will you? It will be nice for us to not have to struggle to pay your bills as well as our own." Both sisters were embarrassed, I think they genuinely hadn't given our situation a second thought. The parents were angry, hub felt like a mug and I was simply too tired of coming last on the priority list to keep my mouth shut. I know I sound like a shrew but really I'm not - I hate being taken advantage of and there is something about family where hub wants to be the big man and do more than his share. They never asked us for anything again.

Cheeseface

I would start with asking him to go through it with you. Does he know how much it means to you? Does he think that supporting his family is more important than his life with you.

Misty, that's ridiculous too!

No-one should be funding people to live a lifestyle better than their own.

EssexHebridean

Just had a read through, and a lot of what I'd have said has already been very eloquently put by MMT and others!

Whoever said you have to get him on side it absolutely right. The problem is, as you know yourself, it sounds as though his lightbulb isn't on yet, and until it is, you're going to have limited luck getting him to understand the true nature of what needs doing. If you have control over the joint debts, then for now, I'd be inclined to say worry about those and not about his stuff. What he does need to understand though is that the money is finite. once it's gone, it's gone, and there is no point in him coming to you with his hand out. Might it work for him to either pay for his work travel up front if it's public transport, or otherwise pop the money he needs for the month into a different account so that it doesn't just get frittered?

I'm absolutely right there with those who are saying that you can't be giving handouts to others to fund them having a better lifestyle than you own. we are now in a position where we're better off than my parents, and although Mum would NEVER dream of asking, I love being able to help her with things like her car service, for example, and paying for the cost of the christmas food. All those years they went without to allow me to do things when I was growing up, I can now give back, and that's great - but that's a totally different situation to Misty's Beans on toast/mobile bills thing!

I think you do need to leave him with the storecard debt for the time being. Concentrate on the areas you can make a difference at this point, and try not to worry too much about the places you can't - I know, not necessarily that easy!

I'd say, get christmas out of the way, and then assuming you have some time together over the rest of the holiday, "remind" him that you both need to sit down together just for a short while to go over the financial stuff. Plan something nice to follow on and do - just a cuppa and a piece of cake even, but just something so you can say "Ooh, as soon as we've done this shall we..." so it's there as an incentive. As misty has said - lots of uses of "we" and "our". Have some targets in mind but be sure they're not overwhelming ones, and act as though he's already on side with things - as well as asking his opinion about certain issues - perhaps if he can think of anywhere else you may be able to make savings. It's a bit like at work - you know, the easiest way to get your boss to agree to something is to make them think it's their idea!

Make checking your banking a daily thing too. Ages ago on here there used to be a little ritual of "daily clicks" (cashback sites where you could earn free cash, a bingo site that did freebie stuff for a while) and it was almost second nature to start the day with "Clicks done, banks checked" - not a bad thing at all.

jvr

Hi All thanks for your posts I have been out of it with this horrible norovirus, then spent a day bleaching my house from top to bottom.


Misty.. that is awful its bad enough if anyone takes advantage of someone else let alone family! Good for you for standing up to them!


Our situation is slightly different, when me and the OH first go together he was in SA and I had a lot of disposable income while wages there mean they didn't so I was in a position to help and being young and a bit dumb I liked the fact that I could solve problems with money. Generally at that point they were getting by even when OH was out of work on and off. After me and OH got married I sent him 2,000 to keep in his bank account to help him get a visitors visa over here (took 10 months after we were married for him to actually be allowed to move here) then my MIL lost her job and the car broke, without telling me they used the sale of some furniture and that money to buy a new car. Stupidly I just acted understanding when I found out. I probably would have told them to do that, but I was a bit dumb and didn't say how hurt I was that it happened behind my back. My dad gave me a large amount of money towards a house deposit which had to be in my bank for us to get the visa for OH to live here. SIL got an opportunity for a job further away which was a lot more money. After discussing with my dad I decided to sort of lend her the 3,500 out of my deposit to get a car so she could get this job (no public transport in SA) when my MIL got made redundant the payments to us for car stopped and she gave the money to her mum instead as we agreed this was best. I always lent the money not expecting it back so this was fine. but we were also paying the rent for about a year, I was still on a really good income and could afford this. The problem was my job was hell and so last year I took a 10,000 pay cut to a job that doesn't make me cry! I made it very clear at the time that I would not be in a position to help anymore but for my own sanity I had to make this change. Now we are sending about 60 a month with the clear knowledge that this is not considered enough and my SIL is giving even more. I get the feeling that they think we should give more as we are in England but they seem to be forgetting they also have the capital of two cars from my money. SIL has never paid anymore to us so I consider the money she is giving her mum to really be our money. What I don't really understand is how they managed before OH met me so how come now it is impossible? and why am I considering a second job and it wouldn't cross there minds. There are other little things like the fact OH doesn't get so much as a card at Christmas or Birthday, I understand having no money for presents but couldn't his mum send a card? My family are very generous and my parents and sisters spend on him what they spend on each other as they know he gets nothing else.


It feels like an ongoing situation that we have no control over and I keep pointing out that we have to pay for tickets to be able to ever see them and what about when we have children? There won’t be 60 for them then! An awful part of me just wishes his sister would hurry up and marry her rich boyfriend so none of its our problem! Not that I would dare voice that in RL!!


It is only my OH his sister and his mum. His dad died when he was 16 and although his parents were divorced I know his dad still looked after his mum a lot. He definitely has man of the house syndrome and it is even stronger in SA culture than it is here. I could probably see all my OH’s issues resulting from that happening, he lived with his dad not his mum and his sister lived with his mum so suddenly at 16 he had to leave home, move in with them and be THE man. In some ways he missed out on all the financial education his dad would have given him, his mum has always been terrible with money.


Thanks for advice on talking it through Essex and Cheeseface! I think you are both right I need to sit down and chat with him after Christmas (before his pay day) Progress last night though, pointed out that he should work out budget till pay day and I can lend him that amount and he will have less to repay so he asked for less money! Love the advice on how to talk to him about it with incentives and make him think it’s his idea … will try that for sure!!





Just wanted to say thank you all for your thoughtful advice! Feeling positive that might manage to get through to him a bit even if doesn’t have full on LBM!





And sorry for mega essay!!

SpekySquarehead

Morning JVR,

Just wanted to swing by and wish you luck with it all and hope the conversation goes well.