Free hotel stays

dmg24

You will not get far with small claims ...

As each of these places has laws that may differ from those of New Jersey and New York, by accessing this Web Site, You agree that these Terms and Your use of the Web Site shall be governed in all respect by the internal substantive laws of the State of New Jersey, without regard to conflict of laws provisions and shall not be governed by the United Nations Convention on the International Sale of Goods.

This is stated on both the .com and .co.uk websites.

littleange

Did someone delete my post?

taxiphil

Thanks for the info dmg, I wasn't aware of that. Can't find it on ramadajarvis.co.uk though - are you sure about that?

I'm fairly sure that English courts can assert jurisdiction over any company selling to English residents (especially when a UK-based service is being sold, and the company has assets in the UK). Otherwise every website would give itself impunity by burying something in its T&Cs about contracts being governed by the laws of an obscure African state.

Not entirely sure though - will ask my colleague in the morning.

dmg24

Can't find it on ramadajarvis.co.uk though - are you sure about that?

I don't know, I checked www.ramada.co.uk. Which site did you book through (you state above ramada.com)? I'll check rj tomorrow if you used that site?

I'm fairly sure that English courts can assert jurisdiction over any company selling to English residents (especially when a UK-based service is being sold, and the company has assets in the UK). Otherwise every website would give itself impunity by burying something in its T&Cs about contracts being governed by the laws of an obscure African state.

That's nonsense. A County Court judge could not disapply such a contractual term. They could only do this if the term was unfair, which it is not.

dmg24

taxiphil wrote: »

I LOVE YOU Google and your cache!

Here's the T&Cs as of 23 Sep, before they changed them.......

http://64.233.183.104/search?q=cache:VM90eZhJrPMJ:www.ramada.com/Ramada/control/guaranteed_best_rate_terms+http://www.ramada.com/Ramada/control/guaranteed_best_rate_terms&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=uk

Unfortunately, your find is also your downfall. You appear to have missed the part that states:

Ramada reserves the right to modify, alter, suspend or terminate this Guarantee at any time without prior notice at its sole discretion.

I am afraid I can not accept that Ramada Jarvis is entitled to rescind this offer. There is nothing in the Terms and Conditions which permits this.

It appears that there is.

taxiphil

dmg24 wrote: »

I don't know, I checked www.ramada.co.uk. Which site did you book through (you state above ramada.com)? I'll check rj tomorrow if you used that site?

Yes, the one in Chester was through ramada.com, but I also have another claim they're ignoring which was via ramadajarvis.co.uk, which I think is definitely covered by English law.

dmg24 wrote: »

That's nonsense. A County Court judge could not disapply such a contractual term. They could only do this if the term was unfair, which it is not.

A grey area, most certainly. But to write it off as nonsense is a bit OTT.

This is from the website of law firm Pinsent Masons, on the subject of jurisdiction for companies selling outside the UK to UK consumers:

It is not permitted to have a choice of law which deprives the consumer of the protection afforded to him by the mandatory rules of the law of the country in which he has his habitual residence.

I'll admit I'm not well versed in the complex and thorny subject of transactions which happen in cyberspace, but I do believe it's not quite as simple as Ramada would like us to believe in their T&Cs.

And as for this:

Ramada reserves the right to modify, alter, suspend or terminate this Guarantee at any time without prior notice at its sole discretion.

One of the most basic tenets of contract law is that neither party has a unilateral right to vary the terms of the contract after it has been formed, and any term that seeks to give this right is an unfair term.

There may also be a case for claiming from credit card companies under Section 75 of the CCA following a ruling by the Appeal Court in 2006 which decided that CCA protection applies to overseas transactions made online. (Luckily my hotel rate in question is £4 over the £100 minimum limit needed for the CCA to apply).

RedBern

[QUOTEQuote:
Ramada reserves the right to modify, alter, suspend or terminate this Guarantee at any time without prior notice at its sole discretion.][/QUOTE]

In a 'clutching at straws' kind of way - I read that as 'Ramada reserves the right to withdraw this promotion ...when it feels like it has made a real mess and committed to more free rooms than it can handle' not 'we can just decide to charge you for rooms we previously had agreed would be free'.

If the latter were the case - and in Taxiphil's case - that would imply that they can 'alter' any booking price and instead of charging £104 for a room which you fully expect to pay (in a normal booking) - e-mail you the day before and say that room will now cost you £200 - and there's nothing you can do about it.

blindman

RedBern wrote: »

[QUOTE
Ramada reserves the right to modify, alter, suspend or terminate this Guarantee at any time without prior notice at its sole discretion.]

In a 'clutching at straws' kind of way - I read that as 'Ramada reserves the right to withdraw this promotion ...when it feels like it has made a real mess and committed to more free rooms than it can handle' not 'we can just decide to charge you for rooms we previously had agreed would be free'.

If the latter were the case - and in Taxiphil's case - that would imply that they can 'alter' any booking price and instead of charging £104 for a room which you fully expect to pay (in a normal booking) - e-mail you the day before and say that room will now cost you £200 - and there's nothing you can do about it.

I don't think it's clutching at straws as that's how I (and I'm sure others) read the T&C's

Once the contract is made then neither party can break it without penalty.

Good luck taxiphil

dmg24

taxiphil's booking was made under US law.

I think we have all been caught out by attempting to exploit a loophole. No one has done anything illegal, but Ramada didn't go along with our game.

If you still want to go to Chester, book yourself into the Grosvenor. Much nicer than any Ramada! x

blindman

dmg24 wrote: »

taxiphil's booking was made under US law.

So you're saying in the US they can change T&C's after you've booked\bought a service?

So for example you could turn up at a hotel having booked a room for $200 and they could say on your arrival "Oh we've now changed it to $300?

I don't think so

I'm no lawyer ....

Proof of this would be interesting.

It would change my whole life of travel immensely if this were the case :eek: