Britain can be better off outside Europe

CLAPTON

wotsthat wrote: »

Mainly yours.



Same here but I recognise that what is in the best interests of 'us' might be detrimental to 'them' and, whilst that might be uncomfortable, I can live with it (within limits). What I'm not going to do create a faux argument that someone whose 'us' extends to no more than 10 people is the big racist because it salves my conscience.



If you could think of Europeans as 'us' rather than 'them' you could quite easily make the identical argument for trade and immigration policies that benefit European citizens but are otherwise non-discriminatory. Not much difference in the argument - you just operate in a small monkeysphere and, of course, you very much see Europeans as 'them'.

I don't think of people in terms of 'them' and 'us' so very telling that you do.


and you see that trade barriers round the EU are in the best interest of the people of the EU: so no belief in the mutual benefits of trade

wotsthat

mayonnaise wrote: »

Why is an appreciating pound great news?
For the last couple of months, I keep hearing from our brexiteer headbangers how wonderful a weak pound is.

In a post referendum world any movement in Sterling is a sign from above that the peoples of the UK made the correct decision.

Our chap who buys dollars is forecasting a year end exchange rate of $1.40. If he's right (he usually isn't!) the foreigners who took advantage of the 15% off sale will be laughing all the way to the bank and back.

wotsthat

CLAPTON wrote: »

I don't think of people in terms of 'them' and 'us' so very telling that you do.

It's more telling that you spend a lot of time going on about the native born but don't think you think in terms of them and us.

CLAPTON wrote: »

and you see that trade barriers round the EU are in the best interest of the people of the EU: so no believe in the mutual benefits of trade

You see trade barriers around the UK as being in the best interests of the people of the UK; so don't believe in the mutual benefits of trade.

You deliberately avoided the point so have your strawman back.

CLAPTON

wotsthat wrote: »

It's more telling that you spend a lot of time going on about the native born but don't think you think in terms of them and us.



You see trade barriers around the UK as being in the best interests of the people of the UK; so don't believe in the mutual benefits of trade.

You deliberately avoided the point so have your strawman back.

I distinguish (as does every country in the world and the vast majority of the people) between (UK) citizens and those who are citizens of other countries.
Within the UK, our own citizens have different rights and obligations to citizens of other countries.
I see this reasonable and proportionate as does every other country in the world including fellow members of the EU.

I don't see trade barriers round the UK as being in the best interests of the people of the UK: I believe in the mutual benefits of trade which you clearly don't.

It explains a lot about why you don't see the huge fault lines in the EU international trading policies. : no strawman then just a fundamental difference about the benefits of trade.

mwpt

mayonnaise wrote: »

Why is an appreciating pound great news?
For the last couple of months, I keep hearing from our brexiteer headbangers how wonderful a weak pound is.

Won't someone think of the exporters?

mrginge

wotsthat wrote: »

Your deep concern for non-white non-christian peoples is heartwarming. I'm welling up a little to be honest.

I'm not really interested in whether you believe that certain posters motives in relation to the EU are genuine or not.
I am interested though in suggestions that it is better that white people deal with other white people, and whether the person who makes that suggestion uses that logic when they perhaps go to a shop, or visits a doctor, or hires a taxi or looks to employ someone.

daveyjp

gfplux wrote: »

For those who want a little more detail on what we will negotiating you should read this.
Published by the UK Government.
It's 180 pages so I wonder if Boris has read it yet.
I have only read the executive summary.

http://researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ResearchBriefing/Summary/CBP-7213

Whilst it may be 2 meg and 180 pages, that is at least a comprehensive impact assessment.

Was anything like this available 6 months ago? From what people are saying about lack of information it appears not.

wotsthat

mrginge wrote: »

I am interested though in suggestions that it is better that white people deal with other white people, and whether the person who makes that suggestion uses that logic when they perhaps go to a shop, or visits a doctor, or hires a taxi or looks to employ someone.

I think the suggestion was that in the real world people deal with friends and neighbours and prefer to do so for a number of reasons. Only you, and Clapton, find great significance in the colour and religion of those friends and neighbours.

Yes I do use that logic when going to a shop, a doctor, hiring a taxi or employing someone. The colour and religion of the people is irrelevant but it's somewhat inconvenient to pop to the shops in Ghana, visit a doctor in Lagos, call a taxi from Zanzibar or expect someone living to Mogadishu to commute to the midlands.

CLAPTON

wotsthat wrote: »

I think the suggestion was that in the real world people deal with friends and neighbours and prefer to do so for a number of reasons. Only you, and Clapton, find great significance in the colour and religion of those friends and neighbours.

.

Ignoring the usual factual untruths, it's just a (happy) co-incidence that you love the EU composed of white, christian countries and are happy to discriminate in trade against black african ones.
But then you don't actually believe that trade has mutual benefits to both partners.

TrickyTree83

Seems to me what they're getting at is that the EU whilst it might be free trade, it's very far removed from fair trade.

Economic migration is exacerbated by protectionist policies stopping people from earning a living purely because of where they are born (i.e. not in the EU). Which is by design, the EU is for citizens, and by proxy business, of the EU and no one else.

The fairtrade foundation has seemingly done more to address this than the EU.