Britain can be better off outside Europe

westernpromise

CLAPTON wrote: »

I would prefer 10 guilty people went free than one innocent person was found guilty

If you were Toastie you'd also hate and loathe the innocent person for his unfair advantages in not being an offender, and you'd want him punished instead.

CLAPTON

mwpt wrote: »

But, was it immigration all along, just like every other bigot?

Every single country in the world has restrictions on immigration.
All holy EU countries have restrictions on immigration.

I accept you think every country in the world are racist bigots and you think that probably 99.99% of people are racist bigots too, but it doesn't drive the debate much further.
I confess, my inner anger with this country is very high at the moment. The brexit seems to give every 'remain' person an excuse for irrational bigotry to believe their views are the ones that count.
The total refusal of the 'remain' to see a white, christian european carbul for what it is; the refusal to see the huge harm the EU has done to poor African countries over the last 40 years : the refusal to see how that helped the rise of extremism. The tolerance (encouragement ) of the racist anti-Turkey attitude : and worse of all is the smug self satisfied, self delusion that the whole world is wrong except you.
You are fighting for discrimination is favour of white christian europeans and against all the black and other peoples.

wotsthat

CLAPTON wrote: »

Every single country in the world has restrictions on immigration.
All holy EU countries have restrictions on immigration.

I accept you think every country in the world are racist bigots and you think that probably 99.99% of people are racist bigots too, but it doesn't drive the debate much further.
I confess, my inner anger with this country is very high at the moment. The brexit seems to give every 'remain' person an excuse for irrational bigotry to believe their views are the ones that count.
The total refusal of the 'remain' to see a white, christian european carbul for what it is; the refusal to see the huge harm the EU has done to poor African countries over the last 40 years : the refusal to see how that helped the rise of extremism. The tolerance (encouragement ) of the racist anti-Turkey attitude : and worse of all is the smug self satisfied, self delusion that the whole world is wrong except you.
You are fighting for discrimination is favour of white christian europeans and against all the black and other peoples.

Maybe a lot of people voted for Brexit not because they thought the EU is racist but because they themselves are racist and think the British white christian race is superior to any other whether they be white christian or not? I think someone here said it's impossible to convince a racist they're not part of a master race.

Even if this is not case your idea that, with love in their hearts, people voted for Brexit because of the good it might do for Africa is ridiculous and fools nobody.

People voted for Brexit because they wanted less foreigners coming to these shores. Judging by the statement from Mrs May yesterday she's twigged what it was all about. There have to be less foreigners even at the expense of a trade deal with the EU.

nkomp18

CLAPTON wrote: »

Every single country in the world has restrictions on immigration.
All holy EU countries have restrictions on immigration.

I accept you think every country in the world are racist bigots and you think that probably 99.99% of people are racist bigots too, but it doesn't drive the debate much further.
I confess, my inner anger with this country is very high at the moment. The brexit seems to give every 'remain' person an excuse for irrational bigotry to believe their views are the ones that count.
The total refusal of the 'remain' to see a white, christian european carbul for what it is; the refusal to see the huge harm the EU has done to poor African countries over the last 40 years : the refusal to see how that helped the rise of extremism. The tolerance (encouragement ) of the racist anti-Turkey attitude : and worse of all is the smug self satisfied, self delusion that the whole world is wrong except you.
You are fighting for discrimination is favour of white christian europeans and against all the black and other peoples.

You sound angry because we are trading with our immediate neighbours instead of far away underdeveloped (and corrupt) countries.

First of all, what better countries to trade with than your very own neighbours.

Secondly, you keep parroting that they are white and christian as if that is somehow our fault that Europe and the UK have been historically white and christian. That's always been like that and the fact that the EU formed a block has nothing to do with race or religion. But even if it did, what better counties for a white christian country to trade with, than other white christian countries?

Thirdly, if you think ceasing to cooperate and/or trade with our neighbours is somehow going to make African countries rich, you are deluded. It'll probably have the exact opposite effect, as EU funding will be suspended. EU funding in Africa is incredibly high. €30.5 billion for the period 2014-2020 just to give you a clue. BILLION, not million.
With the UK gone and the budget falling, I expect that number to fall significantly, thanks to you and your efforts to support your beloved African countries.

Clearly you hadn't realised that the EU is a powerhouse of development projects around the globe and this is going to impact those because of Brexit. One other grand example how Brexit will fail its supporters by having the opposite effect of what you had anticipated

CLAPTON

wotsthat wrote: »

Maybe a lot of people voted for Brexit not because they thought the EU is racist but because they themselves are racist and think the British white christian race is superior to any other whether they be white christian or not? I think someone here said it's impossible to convince a racist they're not part of a master race.

Even if this is not case your idea that, with love in their hearts, people voted for Brexit because of the good it might do for Africa is ridiculous and fools nobody.

People voted for Brexit because they wanted less foreigners coming to these shores. Judging by the statement from Mrs May yesterday she's twigged what it was all about. There have to be less foreigners even at the expense of a trade deal with the EU.

people may well have voted for and against brexit for many reasons.
some may think that quality of life, a decent house for themselves and their children, access to NHS, schools , better wages at the low end of the job market etc are more important that your god 'trade deal'.
It is probably that many do not know about the harm the EU does to African and other poor countries (although there is a decent literature on the subject) but YOU do know about it and YOU choose to mock it. The EU is blatantly racist but you choose not to see and indeed accuse everyone that doesn't agree with your closed mind as 'racist'. All those decent, god fearing white folk the the American south come to mind.

mrginge

mwpt wrote: »

This old chestnut. We've been over it many times. You have no idea about whether the fishing policies are better for everyone or not. The argument that they're bad for our fisherman tugs on your heartstrings, just like immigrants stealing people's jobs, so you react like Pavlov's dog.

Tell me, what in your day to day life was bad? It seems that mostf brexit voters voted because they just cared about other people and the bad things the EU was doing to other people. Where are all these other people to speak for themselves?!!

You seem to have a very good idea about what everybody else bases their voting behaviour on.

I remember all those people who voted to leave based on the effects they saw in their local communities from higher immigration.
Now, apparently they were all idiots and highly intelligent people who had never been to these places would happily trawl out a load of meaningless statistics about how wonderful their lives actually were.

Now though the tune has changed and you have gone into a complete reverse. Now we can only form opinions on the things that directly affect us, and anyone who dares to have an opinion on anything else is the idiot.

Personally I have no direct experience of areas such as -
Foreign aid
Discrimination of minority groups
Defence spending
Corporation tax
The criminal justice system
Energy policy

So by your logic I am not allowed an opinion on those areas. Fortunately we don't live in your bizarre hypocritical world of bullsh1t and my vote is worth exactly same as that of everybody else's. And if that means I want to vote a particular way because I don't like the colour of someone's hat then that's tough luck matey.

wotsthat

CLAPTON wrote: »

people may well have voted for and against brexit for many reasons.
some may think that quality of life, a decent house for themselves and their children, access to NHS, schools , better wages at the low end of the job market etc are more important that your god 'trade deal'.
It is probably that many do not know about the harm the EU does to African and other poor countries (although there is a decent literature on the subject) but YOU do know about it and YOU choose to mock it. The EU is blatantly racist but you choose not to see and indeed accuse everyone that doesn't agree with your closed mind as 'racist'. All those decent, god fearing white folk the the American south come to mind.

The only thing I'm mocking is your attempt to gain the moral high ground with a faux concern for Africans. It's just your latest obsession having given it a rest on Flower of Scotland for a while.

If the, yet to be determined, benefits to Africans in any way negatively impacted the ability of a native born white christian Briton to buy a three bed family house in the SE your tune would change rapidly.

CLAPTON

nkomp18 wrote: »

You sound angry because we are trading with our immediate neighbours instead of far away underdeveloped (and corrupt) countries.

First of all, what better countries to trade with than your very own neighbours.

I believe that there is mutual benefit in trade : if that trade is with near neighbours or far neighbours then that is up to the traders or individuals to make that judgement.
There is no need for institutional discrimination in favour of some.

Secondly, you keep parroting that they are white and christian as if that is somehow our fault that Europe and the UK have been historically white and christian. That's always been like that and the fact that the EU formed a block has nothing to do with race or religion. But even if it did, what better counties for a white christian country to trade with, than other white christian countries?

a deeply disturbing racist comment but I guess it reflects the thoughts of many of the 'remain' crowd.
Frankly I would suggest you delete that paragraph.

Thirdly, if you think ceasing to cooperate and/or trade with our neighbours is somehow going to make African countries rich, you are deluded. It'll probably have the exact opposite effect, as EU funding will be suspended. EU funding in Africa is incredibly high. €30.5 billion for the period 2014-2020 just to give you a clue. BILLION, not million.
With the UK gone and the budget falling, I expect that number to fall significantly, thanks to you and your efforts to support your beloved African countries.

I believe that most 'aid' to africa and elsewhere mainly goes into the hands of the corrupt elite and has little effect on the ordinary people.
Trade on the other hand allows the ordinary people to sell their products for cash to to make their own decisions on how to invest and expand.

Clearly you hadn't realised that the EU is a powerhouse of development projects around the globe and this is going to impact those because of Brexit. One other grand example how Brexit will fail its supporters by having the opposite effect of what you had anticipated

You're right: I don't realise that the EU is a powerhouse of development projects: indeed neither do you as you seem to imply that it is only UK money that keeps the whole corrupt system going.

Why haven't you mentioned the UK 's contribution of 0.7% of GDP to development projects : doesn't that meet your pro-EU mantra?

CLAPTON

wotsthat wrote: »

The only thing I'm mocking is your attempt to gain the moral high ground with a faux concern for Africans. It's just your latest obsession having given it a rest on Flower of Scotland for a while.

do you believe that any and all expressions of concern for other peoples are 'faux' or is it just mine?

If the, yet to be determined, benefits to Africans in any way negatively impacted the ability of a native born white christian Briton to buy a three bed family house in the SE your tune would change rapidly.

My primary concern is for the people born in this country of whatever colour, race, ethnic background, religion, sexual orientation. I believe that UK policy should do, in general, what is in the best interests of UK citizens.

I am arguing for a a trade and immigration policies that benefits the UK citizens but that is otherwise non discriminatory : you are arguing for a openly racist one.

nkomp18

CLAPTON wrote: »

a deeply disturbing racist comment but I guess it reflects the thoughts of many of the 'remain' crowd.
Frankly I would suggest you delete that paragraph.

No I won't delete because it's not racist and because it's a true fact. UK is predominately white and christian. It always has been until now. EU countries are too. It is where white people come from, the origin, the place of their creation.
Not sure when that will change, if it will ever change, but for now I suggest you learn to live in peace with concrete facts.

So accepting that UK is a predominately white christian country (again, fact, not racist), what better countries to trade with than its immediate next door neighbours that also happen to be white and christian? (not that it matters, but it is another conveniently placed FACT)