Britain can be better off outside Europe

Mortgagefreeman

A_Medium_Size_Jock wrote: »

Well "for starters" you might just want to check the date on articles you are choosing, seemingly out of sheer desperation.:p
"updated 29th June 2016".
:rotfl:

I think he's just having trouble managing to scrape anymore from the bottom of the barrel.

mwpt

CLAPTON wrote: »

There are MAJOR differences of opinion between the small number of us that believe trade and particularly 'free' trade (i.e. without tariffs or restrictive regulations) is beneficial for both parties and those that believe that trade is NOT mutually beneficial.

Your messages are too mixed to be truthful though.

You believe in free trade which means poorer countries with terrible labour laws can undercut UK businesses and suppress our wages, but you don't believe in free movement which you claim allows foreign workers to work for less and suppress our wages.

Thrugelmir

mwpt wrote: »

Your messages are too mixed to be truthful though.

You believe in free trade which means poorer countries with terrible labour laws can undercut UK businesses and suppress our wages, .

Nothing poor about Qatar or Saudi Arabia, or even the USA where labour employment regulations are weak. Germany only introduced a minimum wage on 1st January 2015.

TrickyTree83

mwpt wrote: »

Your messages are too mixed to be truthful though.

You believe in free trade which means poorer countries with terrible labour laws can undercut UK businesses and suppress our wages, but you don't believe in free movement which you claim allows foreign workers to work for less and suppress our wages.

Total free trade would require a reorientation of our economy, as Minford states, a lot of manufacturing would disappear since it's uneconomical to do so as other parts of the world have lower costs. So we'd need to focus on things our education and training can deliver over an above that of places in the world with lower costs. Space age manufacturing for example, carbon nano-tubes and the like.

It'd be painful, but in theory it would work and give high paying sustainable jobs.

mwpt

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

Total free trade would require a reorientation of our economy, as Minford states, a lot of manufacturing would disappear since it's uneconomical to do so as other parts of the world have lower costs. So we'd need to focus on things our education and training can deliver over an above that of places in the world with lower costs. Space age manufacturing for example, carbon nano-tubes and the like.

It'd be painful, but in theory it would work and give high paying sustainable jobs.

Sorry to say but your messages are also inconsistent. You previously complained because you said the EU interfered in allowing us to subsidise our steel industry. Why should we require a steel industry according to your above post?

This is one of my many problems with many brexiters. Everything starts from the premise that the EU is bad (or what sometimes seems like actual hatred) and then subsequent views are shaped and formed around that, changing when required to remain true to the anti-EU position.

Another exhibit: the Apple - Ireland tax thread.

TrickyTree83

mwpt wrote: »

Sorry to say but your messages are also inconsistent. You previously complained because you said the EU interfered in allowing us to subsidise our steel industry. Why should we require a steel industry according to your above post?

This is one of my many problems with many brexiters. Everything starts from the premise that the EU is bad (or what sometimes seems like actual hatred) and then subsequent views are shaped and formed around that, changing when required to remain true to the anti-EU position.

Another exhibit: the Apple - Ireland tax thread.

If you recall my opinion on steel is that it's integral to defence industry, and so should be kept at all costs, nationalised if needs be. That flies in the face of many beliefs I hold, but I'd rather have the skills, knowledge and at least for the time being before its blown off the face of the earth, the ability to produce our own steel during times of great danger.

In a Minford free market scenario steel would indeed be thrown to the wolves, we couldn't compete with China. But I (maybe not Patrick Minford) believe our top MOD bods are correct, in that the steel at Port Talbot in particular is strategically important.

So please don't use me as 'one of the many problems with brexiteers', or tell me that I'm not consistent when I have been - you can search for the posts regarding Port Talbot.

Please don't make me list every exception to everything I say ever on this forum from now on. That would make me very unhappy I do get what you were trying to say about me though, and it may well be true for the others you speak of. But on this occasion the proof is somewhere in the MSE forum cloud, I forget the thread name now.

Conrad

mwpt wrote: »

Sorry to say but your messages are also inconsistent. You previously complained because you said the EU interfered in allowing us to subsidise our steel industry. Why should we require a steel industry according to your above post?

This is one of my many problems with many brexiters. Everything starts from the premise that the EU is bad (or what sometimes seems like actual hatred) and then subsequent views are shaped and formed around that, changing when required to remain true to the anti-EU position.

Another exhibit: the Apple - Ireland tax thread.

And you illustrate one of the problems with EU cultists. You start out with the assumption we, left to our own devices, will make self harming silly decisions, and be walked all over by the likes of China in spite of the experience of smaller independent nations, lol. I think we will make our way in the world, no need for the old Men of Brussells to guide our hand

I see today we had furthe good economic news, as I always said, there won't be any downturn

buglawton

gfplux wrote: »

For those who want a little more detail on what we will negotiating you should read this.
Published by the UK Government.
It's 180 pages so I wonder if Boris has read it yet.
I have only read the executive summary.

http://researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ResearchBriefing/Summary/CBP-7213

Something to listen to for half an hour on the commute or jog:
The Leavocrats
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b07qbcb6
Role of the civil service in Brexit

Conrad

There's far to many fools seeking to over complicate what is essential.y a simple task

mwpt

Conrad wrote: »

And you illustrate one of the problems with EU cultists. You start out with the assumption we, left to our own devices, will make self harming silly decisions, and be walked all over by the likes of China in spite of the experience of smaller independent nations, lol. I think we will make our way in the world, no need for the old Men of Brussells to guide our hand

No, I don't. I have never said that.

PS. You keep refusing to answer my question, why are you suddenly so concerned about freedom of movement? You spent a lot of time implying you were after all the glorious trade deal opportunities. Was it about immigration all along?