Britain can be better off outside Europe

TrickyTree83

mwpt wrote: »

Exactly. We are running a successful economy as part of the EU. Glad to see finally a positive note from a brexiter about the EU.

Trading with as many countries as possible with as few barriers as possible would be the best situation for the UK. I've always maintained that.

I want the Eurozone to be successful, that helps our economy to be successful too. The only 'them' and 'us' issue I have is where the interests of another 27 countries dictates to us the trade arrangements we can and cannot have. I believe that is fundamentally wrong. So I can be positive about the EU in so far as I want their economies to be successful but I disagree with the way it's ran.

If the EU was willing to reform and legislation was in place with a deadline to make sure that took place, I may have voted to remain. But unfortunately they told us to sling our hook at the start of this year which is as good an indication as any that they're unwilling to reform.

CLAPTON

Kohoutek wrote: »

It's not about monopolies or cartels; it's about greater foreign competition and the potential loss of UK jobs as a result.

No idea of the point you are trying to make.

You either believe in the mutual benefits of trade or you don't.
If you do trade then inevitably jobs will both be lost and created: if that weren't so there would be no benefits of trade.

So if foreigners can produce avocados cheaper that the UK then we should trade even if UK avocado grower have to find something else to do.

I do believe in free trade : clearly you don't but prefer protectionism with high tariff walls : seems that many remainers agree with you

Conrad

mwpt wrote: »

Do you think that is superior genetics or do you think our training and sports programmes have something to do with it? Those cost money. A lot of money. That comes from our people ultimately and that comes from our economic prosperity. And we achieved this while being in the EU. We "came second" in the Olympics while being part of the EU! Just think of that achievement. I reckon the EU has been incredibly good for Britain. I don't know why you are so negative about it. Try being more positive.

I'm more positive about fully autonomous nimble democracy than I am great lumbering federations that prolong economic difficulties

I'm totally cool with trade only associations of course such as ASEAN

Conrad

mwpt wrote: »

Exactly. We are running a successful economy as part of the EU. Glad to see finally a positive note from a brexiter about the EU.

I don't think an unbalanced economy reliant on imports, debt and consumption that produces too few quality jobs is as sucessfull as we can be. We will do better now.

wotsthat

CLAPTON wrote: »

I do believe in free trade : clearly you don't but prefer protectionism with high tariff walls : seems that many remainers agree with you

You should get an award for clumsily built strawmen.

I also believe in free trade but am somewhat skeptical Brexit will lead to tariff walls being demolished or even reduced. In fact, we have absolutely no idea what the government's intentions are in this regard.

mayonnaise

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

What's the excuse for the other countries in the EU?

Their excuse might be they chose to spend their money on other things?
While we pump hundreds of millions on elite sports, aiming for medals, national pride, 'hero' parades and flag-waving...while our kids are the fattest in Europe and grassroots sports facilities are being closed for lack of funding.
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/jul/05/olympic-legacy-failure-sports-centres-council-cuts

Other countries in the EU might have other priorities.

CLAPTON

wotsthat wrote: »

You should get an award for clumsily built strawmen.

I also believe in free trade but am somewhat skeptical Brexit will lead to tariff walls being demolished or even reduced. In fact, we have absolutely no idea what the government's intentions are in this regard.

if you believe that free trade (or even trade) is of mutual benefit to the two parties concerned than you would accept that trade with Africa would have been of benefit to the African countries and the people of the EU.

The EU prevented this trade for 40 years (I acknowledge a recent change in policy) and so did harm to Africa and the people of the EU purely for political reason (to provide protectionism for EU farmers especially French and German but now across the board).

We indeed do not know the future and what the government will decide about trade in general or agricultural trade with Africa or other developing countries.
However, it will be the decision of the UK government to choose to deliberately damage the economies of both the UK and Africa rather than the decision of EU political elite.
You will be able to show your devotion to open free trade by voting for the 'correct' UK political party just as you can now vote for the 'correct' MEP.

TrickyTree83

mayonnaise wrote: »

Their excuse might be they chose to spend their money on other things?
While we pump hundreds of millions on elite sports, aiming for medals, national pride, 'hero' parades and flag-waving...while our kids are the fattest in Europe and grassroots sports facilities are being closed for lack of funding.
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/jul/05/olympic-legacy-failure-sports-centres-council-cuts

Other countries in the EU might have other priorities.

Not an indication of the EU being behind the reason for our success in the Olympics is it.

wotsthat

CLAPTON wrote: »

if you believe that free trade (or even trade) is of mutual benefit to the two parties concerned than you would accept that trade with Africa would have been of benefit to the African countries and the people of the EU.

The EU prevented this trade for 40 years (I acknowledge a recent change in policy) and so did harm to Africa and the people of the EU purely for political reason (to provide protectionism for EU farmers especially French and German but now across the board).

The UK were active participants for over 40 years and helped construct these tariffs. I don't recall much of a fuss in the past about this.

I doubt the UK government's attitude to tariffs have changed much. One issue is, I suspect, whatever the government think voters are generally protectionist in nature and don't recognise that a tariff on imports is effectively a tax on buying local produce.

CLAPTON wrote: »

We indeed do not know the future and what the government will decide about trade in general or agricultural trade with Africa or other developing countries.
However, it will be the decision of the UK government to choose to deliberately damage the economies of both the UK and Africa rather than the decision of EU political elite.
You will be able to show your devotion to open free trade by voting for the 'correct' UK political party just as you can now vote for the 'correct' MEP.

No we don't know the future but can take a guess. I imagine we'll be less fussed about import tariffs on avocados and oranges but there will be little change with regard to spuds & beer etc.

As I expected little to change with the approach to African farmers it was a non-issue as far as Brexit considerations were concerned. It makes no difference to me or those African farmers which white christian imposes the tariffs. If there was evidence the UK was pushing for lower tariffs in anything more than a lacklustre way and someone said that's why they voted Brexit I'd cheer them as they sat aloft moral mountain. Voting for something, like tariff free African trade, knowing it's not going to happen smacks of trying just a touch too hard to gain the moral high ground.

As for voting for the correct party who do you suggest? There's currently a choice of one as far as I see.

Ronaldo_Mconaldo

mwpt wrote: »

Do you think that is superior genetics or do you think our training and sports programmes have something to do with it? Those cost money. A lot of money. That comes from our people ultimately and that comes from our economic prosperity. And we achieved this while being in the EU. We "came second" in the Olympics while being part of the EU! Just think of that achievement. I reckon the EU has been incredibly good for Britain. I don't know why you are so negative about it. Try being more positive.

What? This is the most tenuous link between the success of the UK and the EU going. You won't find many experts out there trying to convince people that the UK buying scratch cards that lead to Team GB's Olympic funding can in any way be linked to the EU. Nice try though.