An Evening With... Jeremy Corbyn

CLAPTON

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Corbyn's still going to win though. And to be absolutely honest, I can see things are developing roughly along the lines of the Scottish referendum campaign.

Step 1 ) Was to totally demonise the leader ( Salmond in the previous case )

Step 2 ) Was to flood the mainstream media with so much anti-independence/Corbyn rhetoric that people leaning that way took to social media and blogs to interact with each other.

Step 3) Was to start demonising those that took part in social media. Cybernats/Corbynista's/Cults/Dear Leader etc.

These people above start losing faith in the press and the general media. And on public commentary areas and forums like these are simply dismissed as nutters. You can see the above happening with ruggedtoast. Who has gone from ruggedtoast to 'toastie' as I went from Shakethedisease to STD ( <-- which I found funny ).

Now Corbyn might not win in 2020, but all the signs for me are there of at least the possibility of some big surprises. Salmond went from a lost cause at 28% for independence in 2011 to 45% in 2014 with the full weight of UK media 24/7 and every other political party against. Khan's intervention I can assure you has simply hardened Corbyn's support further. And the next time he appears anywhere, there will be twice as many there as the last time. Rinse and repeat for the next few years. Unlike Salmond who plodded on appearing and getting pelters every time he appeared on tv or interviewed in the press, Corbyn seems to have given up on MSM already which is probably a good thing. He can't do anything right so why bother trying. He's there for the long haul though, once he wins. He'll drag Labour left in the process. Then make way for a new leader that doesn't think abstaining on Welfare Bill's is a good thing to do <-- why Corbyn won largely in the first place.

This isn't even factoring in the Tories making any blunders, particularly on Brexit and the potential for in-fighting there. 2020 is eons away in political terms.

good heavens
haven't you moved on from the narrative the the Scots were so stupid they believed the vile newspapers and main stream media and so were 'tricked' into voting for 'NO'.
surely they must be able to see the how they were treated as idiots and are now overwhelmingly in favour of iscotland.

ruggedtoast

Wild_Rover wrote: »

Hi Rugged, how goes it this weekend?

I was wondering what you think of the Mayor of London's views on the Dear Leader?

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/aug/20/ditch-jeremy-corbyn-before-too-late-sadiq-khan-tells-labour

Just curious.

WR

I'm in no way surprised. Khan is a right wing big business career politician.

He was carried to the Mayoralty on a tide of white liberal self congratulation, a lot of hard work campaigning by people who also support Jeremy (and are now upset with Khan), and had been crowned by the mainstream media before a single vote was cast.

What I'm more interested in is how credulous you people are regarding deference to the establishment.

I don't know if it's a generational thing (Reds under the bed) or just a seam of selfishness that pervades the type of right wing (mostly men) who visit this forum.

Nevertheless, some things are evident.

None of you will countenance a poor person being £100 richer if it were to leave you a penny poorer.

You are all absolutely terrified of The Left, though what you think this is is completely uninterrogated. Some of you think The Left is something to do with foreigners, others on this thread don't like gay people, more are angry about 'layabouts'.

There is a further strand of special venom reserved for 'the young' whom are meant to pull their socks up (even before theyre born) so that they can eventually become a childless right wing middle aged man fighting communists on a forum themselves some day.

You are all so worried about The Left it seems to have escaped you attention that you have become so joyless and right wing yourselves that outside your bubble, most people are to the left of you.

ukcarper

ruggedtoast wrote: »

I'm in no way surprised. Khan is a right wing big business career politician.

He was carried to the Mayoralty on a tide of white liberal self congratulation, a lot of hard work campaigning by people who also support Jeremy (and are now upset with Khan), and had been crowned by the mainstream media before a single vote was cast.

What I'm more interested in is how credulous you people are regarding deference to the establishment.

I don't know if it's a generational thing (Reds under the bed) or just a seam of selfishness that pervades the type of right wing (mostly men) who visit this forum.

Nevertheless, some things are evident.

None of you will countenance a poor person being £100 richer if it were to leave you a penny poorer.

You are all absolutely terrified of The Left, though what you think this is is completely uninterrogated. Some of you think The Left is something to do with foreigners, others on this thread don't like gay people, more are angry about 'layabouts'.

There is a further strand of special venom reserved for 'the young' whom are meant to pull their socks up (even before theyre born) so that they can eventually become a childless right wing middle aged man fighting communists on a forum themselves some day.

You are all so worried about The Left it seems to have escaped you attention that you have become so joyless and right wing yourselves that outside your bubble, most people are to the left of you.

The trouble is A Labour Party with Corbyn as leader will loss the votes of the middle of road voters who are happy to pay a bit extra to help those not so well off as themselves and its those voters that Labour need to win. If you don't think the welfare systems needs reforming you are mistaken and I would rather have a left of centre party making those changes than the Tory party which I fear Corbyn is consigning us to.

ruggedtoast

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Corbyn's still going to win though. And to be absolutely honest, I can see things are developing roughly along the lines of the Scottish referendum campaign.

Step 1 ) Was to totally demonise the leader ( Salmond in the previous case )

Step 2 ) Was to flood the mainstream media with so much anti-independence/Corbyn rhetoric that people leaning that way took to social media and blogs to interact with each other.

Step 3) Was to start demonising those that took part in social media. Cybernats/Corbynista's/Cults/Dear Leader etc.

These people above start losing faith in the press and the general media. And on public commentary areas and forums like these are simply dismissed as nutters. You can see the above happening with ruggedtoast. Who has gone from ruggedtoast to 'toastie' as I went from Shakethedisease to STD ( <-- which I found funny ).

Now Corbyn might not win in 2020, but all the signs for me are there of at least the possibility of some big surprises. Salmond went from a lost cause at 28% for independence in 2011 to 45% in 2014 with the full weight of UK media 24/7 and every other political party against. Khan's intervention I can assure you has simply hardened Corbyn's support further. And the next time he appears anywhere, there will be twice as many there as the last time. Rinse and repeat for the next few years. Unlike Salmond who plodded on appearing and getting pelters every time he appeared on tv or interviewed in the press, Corbyn seems to have given up on MSM already which is probably a good thing. He can't do anything right so why bother trying. He's there for the long haul though, once he wins. He'll drag Labour left in the process. Then make way for a new leader that doesn't think abstaining on Welfare Bill's is a good thing to do <-- why Corbyn won largely in the first place.

This isn't even factoring in the Tories making any blunders, particularly on Brexit and the potential for in-fighting there. 2020 is eons away in political terms.

Good point. To be honest I regret much of what I wrote over on the Scottish thread (humble apologies), because I just didn't realise how dishonest the newspaper articles I was reading were.

It was only when I adopted Corbynism that I really understood how bent the Tory owned mainstream media actually is. It has a coordinated narrative that boils down to being nothing other than propaganda.

It has "good guys" and "bad guys" and the vilification of the bad guys is handled in much the same way in every media outlet.

Every article essentially has the same purpose, to avoid any investigation of the actual issues, and redact them to a jeering caricature of the individual.

But its also a mode of obfuscation that is enthusiastically (though unwittingly) continued by its subjects. You can see it all over this thread. Corbyn's in the IRA. Corbyn's a Communist., Corbyn's a Loonie Leftie.

Yeah fine, but there is actually a simple a reason that this discussion even exists. A very large number of people feel discenfrachised by a political mainstream that they don't believe represents them, and they think is fundamentally unfair.

There are half a million members of the Labour Party now, and still millions of people who would vote for a Corbyn led Labour Party were there an election tomorrow. Dismissing their opinions as irrelevant is disingenuous to say the least. As an aside we are also meant to feel like some kind of swivel eyed traitors for "ruining the Labour Party" - an institution that most Labour members clearly don't think has been doing its job.

So yes, you are quite correct in that many of us are deserting the MSM for social media and alt news sources. Now the problem "they" are facing is that when you turn to these sources to find out about one thing you arent meant to know about, you start to find out about a lot of other things too.

None of which are making any of us especially interested in voting for Blairite politicians in 2020.

CLAPTON

ruggedtoast wrote: »

Good point. To be honest I regret much of what I wrote over on the Scottish thread (humble apologies), because I just didn't realise how dishonest the newspaper articles I was reading were.

so basically you are saying you have been a fool all your life .

rest assured : you haven't changed.

setmefree2

ruggedtoast wrote: »

I hope they like walking because they'll barely be taking any of the membership with them.

You have been in the LP 5 minutes - remember you used to be in the LibDems - I don't think you know what "real" LP members want.

setmefree2

ruggedtoast wrote: »

What I'm more interested in is how credulous you people are regarding deference to the establishment.

I don't know if it's a generational thing (Reds under the bed) or just a seam of selfishness that pervades the type of right wing (mostly men) who visit this forum.

Nevertheless, some things are evident.

None of you will countenance a poor person being £100 richer if it were to leave you a penny poorer.

You are all absolutely terrified of The Left, though what you think this is is completely uninterrogated. Some of you think The Left is something to do with foreigners, others on this thread don't like gay people, more are angry about 'layabouts'.

There is a further strand of special venom reserved for 'the young' whom are meant to pull their socks up (even before theyre born) so that they can eventually become a childless right wing middle aged man fighting communists on a forum themselves some day.

You are all so worried about The Left it seems to have escaped you attention that you have become so joyless and right wing yourselves that outside your bubble, most people are to the left of you.

This from a guy who only until recently voted for Nick Clegg......

setmefree2

ruggedtoast wrote: »

I'm in no way surprised. Khan is a right wing big business career politician.

Khan was a LP Councillor from1994 and an MP since 2005. You have been voting LibDem all your life.

Just saying.....

setmefree2

ruggedtoast wrote: »

None of you will countenance a poor person being £100 richer if it were to leave you a penny poorer.

Personally, I would never vote for a party that wants income tax to go above 40%. Anything above 40% is just plain wrong imho.

ruggedtoast wrote: »

You are all absolutely terrified of The Left,

Yes with good cause - look at the left say in France unemployment 10%;Spain 20%; Italy 12% or there is those other great socialist countries Venezuela, or Greece.

Socialism promises prosperity, equality, and security, it delivers poverty, misery, and tyranny.

Socialism does not work because it is not consistent with fundamental principles of human behavior. The failure of socialism in countries around the world can be traced to one critical defect: it is a system that ignores incentives.

The real choice we face is between imperfect capitalism and imperfect socialism. Given that choice, the evidence of history overwhelmingly favors capitalism as the greatest wealth-producing economic system available.

Capitalism nurtures the human spirit, inspires human creativity, and promotes the spirit of enterprise. By providing a powerful system of incentives that promote thrift, hard work, and efficiency, capitalism creates wealth.

RT I get the impression you aren't up for hard work and thrift and just want to sit around all day complaining that life's not fair and you want someone else to do the heavy lifting for you. If you were my son I would tell you to "man up" tbh.

Edit If you spent less time in political meetings and more time working then you would be better off financially. The only person who can solve your problems are you - a political party can't do it.

BobQ

Shakethedisease wrote: »

They can't afford to split for several reasons.

http://uk.businessinsider.com/will-the-labour-party-split-2016-8

Though I think the 'generation' of unopposed Tory rule is pushing things a bit far. And anyway, Owen Smith is only going to face exactly the same treatment as Corbyn is getting now from the media if he wins. Let's not pretend otherwise. Being Welsh and not able to vote as PM on a lot of matters due to EVEL would be the most obvious place to start.

Have you cited any in what followed?