An Evening With... Jeremy Corbyn

Moby

CLAPTON wrote: »

just thought I give toxic toastie an opportunity to explain why children that go to well funded schools in trot dominated councils, perform so much more poorly than in schools where the emphasis is on reading and writing and doing some maths
but as usual, he flunked it although he didn't mention neoliberalism or his hatred of this parents and their generation.

Seen this Clappers:-
A new report from the Equality and Human Rights Commission has highlighted a “very worrying combination of a post-Brexit rise in hate crime and long-term systemic unfairness and race inequality”, in the words of its chairman David Isaac. The review found that black and ethnic minority people in Britain still face “entrenched” race inequality in many areas including health, education, employment and housing.BBC political correspondent Ross Hawkins said the report also concluded there had been “a spike in racism and hate crime in England and Wales after the Brexit vote” while Scotland, where a majority voted to remain in the EU, showed lower levels of hate crime.

Moby

BobQ wrote: »

If a latter day Blair were leading the Labour Party (say someone like David Miliband) I cannot disagree bad things might still happen but Labour would have more chance of being elected and far more undecided, fair minded people would be willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.

There’s likely to be some concern in NATO over Corbyn’s remarks at the Birmingham hustings when he was asked whether he would come to the aid of another NATO member attacked by Russia. Basically Corbyn implied he wouldn’t, suggesting instead that there should be peace throughout Europe through closer discussions etc.
Very noble, and no one would disagree with that, but we are in NATO and it has certain treaty provisions which Corbyn appears willing to tear up. This is, I suspect, electorally more devastating for Labour than the Trident debate. I suspect it’s also more destabilising in geopolitical terms, as Corbyn’s views will be pure manna from heaven for Putin.
Putin's one abiding aim with the west is to neuter NATO, and it is by no means beyond the bounds of possibility that he would try to do this by agitating in some of the Baltic states and calling NATO’s bluff. Hearing that the UK opposition leader would not support action against him in such circumstances is very encouraging. Were Corbyn ever to become PM this would be Putin’s first task of splitting a major NATO player from the pack accomplished, without any effort on his part.
With each hustings event and each platform speech, I become more and more convinced that the Conservatives will tear Labour to shreds on defence and security if Corbyn wins, without even having to mention Trident.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

ruggedtoast wrote: »

Actually as a result of Sure Start and investment in schooling kids in London state schools often do very well.

All Labour policies being reversed by Tory cuts.
.

Not quite.

All 'New Labour' policies being reversed by Tory cuts.

As only New Labour was able to get into power as a government and enact those policies to begin with.

New Labour was the only policy stance that made Labour electable into government in 40 years. Tony Blair was the only Labour leader to lead Labour into government in 40 years.

And until the UK gets an opposition with a similarly New Labour centre left policy stance and credible leadership we'll have a Conservative government.

So it's entirely up to you Labour members to decide if you want to see a Tory government for decades more or whether you want a Labour government that can actually win elections and effect change.

Otherwise by all means continue sitting on the sidelines bemoaning the Tories cutting of New Labour policies, while simultaneously berating New Labour for having a policy stance that was electable, and also ensuring your current leadership returns the party to Old Labour's decades in the wilderness.

But it doesn't seem like much in the way of joined up thinking to me....

Out,_Vile_Jelly

ruggedtoast wrote: »

Well all is well for you then. Devil take the hindmost.

I'm very proud to live in a country with a welfare state, but I think we should be able to discuss its practical limits and the level of personal responsibility expected without hysterics from the left.

I'm confident that most people in Britain would like a happy medium between the extremes of Tory greed and 70s Labour. Who are they supposed to vote for? I seriously think my only option is to spoil my ballot paper.

setmefree2

Moby wrote: »

Seems to me you are the one the with the chip....

I honestly don't have a chip on my shoulder. Out and proud of my working class roots. In fact, I love the working class area I was brought up in - a great community atmosphere. I had a great childhood.

Moby wrote: »

Socialism is about empowering the disadvantaged.

But that's not all socialism is about. It's also about redistributing wealth.

Tbh Tony Blair had the right idea - create a more equal society by making schools better, better NHS, etc. Corbyn and McDonnell - they just want to tax the rich and redistribute wealth.

Moby wrote: »

Despite what posters say from their own 'experience' or skewed observations of the world.....there is no equality of opportunity in this country at this time....that is patently obvious! Young back males are far more likely to go to prison than any other ethnicity, young black men are subject to all sorts of discrimination that other groups are not subjected to,,(e.g stop and search), young white working class males are currently doing extremely poorly in education compared to other social/ethnic groups.

My kids went to London state schools. Their primary school was a very mixed catchment as it included a very rich area of private housing but also a council estate. Indeed, one of the black kids in my eldest son's year group is in prison for murder. However, one of my youngest son's black friends is at Newcastle Uni. The difference between the two black kids was their parents' attitudes - not their class. But answer me this - when my son's friend graduates for Uni and is successful why should he pay massive amounts of tax as Corbyn and McDonnell would like? Where's the reward?

Furthermore, FWIW my kids are a quarter Asian, an eighth Chinese - the rest of their genes are the usual bag of English, Welsh, Irish and Scottish. My youngest son's gf is mixed race - half Jamaican - she is studying Maths at Leeds. Again, her parents are lovely.

Moby

setmefree2 wrote: »

I honestly don't have a chip on my shoulder. Out and proud of my working class roots. In fact, I love the working class area I was brought up in - a great community atmosphere. I had a great childhood.



But that's not all socialism is about. It's also about redistributing wealth.

Tbh Tony Blair had the right idea - create a more equal society by making schools better, better NHS, etc. Corbyn and McDonnell - they just want to tax the rich and redistribute wealth.




My kids went to London state schools. Their primary school was a very mixed catchment as it included a very rich area of private housing but also a council estate. Indeed, one of the black kids in my eldest son's year group is in prison for murder. However, one of my youngest son's black friends is at Newcastle Uni. The difference between the two black kids was their parents' attitudes - not their class. But answer me this - when my son's friend graduates for Uni and is successful why should he pay massive amounts of tax as Corbyn and McDonnell would like? Where's the reward?

Furthermore, FWIW my kids are a quarter Asian, an eighth Chinese - the rest English, Welsh, Irish and Scottish. My youngest son's gf is mixed race - half Jamaican - she is studying Maths at Leeds. Again, her parents are lovely.

Surely what you are saying is anecdotal?

setmefree2

ruggedtoast wrote: »

Actually as a result of Sure Start and investment in schooling kids in London state schools often do very well.

All Labour policies being reversed by Tory cuts. Its the Tory party that wants the poor to stay poor, and they are ensuring it happens.

You are ensuring the poor stay poor by voting Corbyn. You are ensuring there will be a Tory government for a very long time.

setmefree2

ruggedtoast wrote: »

But that isn't really the issue anyway is it? There is a poisonous strand of "poor hating" vitriol that runs like a seam through your demographic.

If I really thought it was the working classes and the poor who supported Corbyn I might actually think Corbyn was OK but I haven't met any working class people who support Corbyn - mostly his supporters are a strange bunch of middle class people who've never experienced working class life and seemed to be obsessed with Trident, Palestine and hating Tories.

setmefree2

ruggedtoast wrote: »

Nor is it the fault of the child in Peckham, or his or her family.

Do you see?

It's never the fault of the child but it's often the fault of the parents. There are good working class parents and their are rubbish working class parents.

setmefree2

CLAPTON wrote: »

so what is the way of providing maximum opportunity for every child even if their parents choose not to work.

Providing them with good education. The rest is up to them.