An Evening With... Jeremy Corbyn

Shakethedisease

bobbymotors wrote: »

It's no good arguing your case Mobilesaver, as correct as it is.

The left do not listen to or comprehend any other point of view than their own, its a waste of effort.

What we need are facts:

Where has hard left socialism ever worked or is working now?
where's the money going to come from?
Which 60 seats is Jezza going to capture from the vile Tories?

If those questions can be reasonably and logically answered then we can have a proper debate.

But until they are it's just rather a rugged rant i'm afraid.

I don't know though. After this leadership election Labour are going to have to settle down and get on with it. The party will probably go leftwards over the next few years internally with boundary changes and other things taking place. All it might take would be a new leader with a more media friendly persona and less baggage to take the helm with the more traditional Labour popular policies front and foremost ( NHS, railways, housing etc ).

Corbyn might not lead Labour into the next election if he's aware that he's not going to get a fair hearing on Labour policies. He might see it as his job more to drag the party left then leave the floor open to someone else. Maybe that will be enough.

There's also the distinct possibility that the Tories will once again very publicly tear themselves to bits over Brexit. Johnson, Davies and Fox have all had to be 'slapped down' by No10 in the last few weeks, pushing for a hard brexit. While on the other side it looks like Osborne is returning to the scene in open rebellion against a hard brexit. May's dithering, stalling and lack of information also isn't helping matters. She's coming across as quite weak and tepid instead of a strong leader to me at least. We don't actually hear very much from her at all barring PMQ's where she's not shone either.

What's true now, isn't likely to be the case 4 years from now. Last year it was impossible to imagine UK politics without Cameron, Miliband and Clegg.. and they've all gone. A disunited Conservative party and a Labour party that's gotten it's internal warring out of the way early in the election cycle, then settled down to really start opposing the Tories where it matters might surprise.

ruggedtoast

Shakethedisease wrote: »

I don't know though. After this leadership election Labour are going to have to settle down and get on with it. The party will probably go leftwards over the next few years internally with boundary changes and other things taking place. All it might take would be a new leader with a more media friendly persona and less baggage to take the helm with the more traditional Labour popular policies front and foremost ( NHS, railways, housing etc ).

Corbyn might not lead Labour into the next election if he's aware that he's not going to get a fair hearing on Labour policies. He might see it as his job more to drag the party left then leave the floor open to someone else. Maybe that will be enough.

There's also the distinct possibility that the Tories will once again very publicly tear themselves to bits over Brexit. Johnson, Davies and Fox have all had to be 'slapped down' by No10 in the last few weeks, pushing for a hard brexit. While on the other side it looks like Osborne is returning to the scene in open rebellion against a hard brexit. May's dithering, stalling and lack of information also isn't helping matters. She's coming across as quite weak and tepid instead of a strong leader to me at least. We don't actually hear very much from her at all barring PMQ's where she's not shone either.

What's true now, isn't likely to be the case 4 years from now. Last year it was impossible to imagine UK politics without Cameron, Miliband and Clegg.. and they've all gone. A disunited Conservative party and a Labour party that's gotten it's internal warring out of the way early in the election cycle, then settled down to really start opposing the Tories where it matters might surprise.

Yes, that's a reasoned and quite probable outcome. Outside of the bubbles these forumites inhabit, the world is changing.

ruggedtoast

bobbymotors wrote: »

I'm not old enough to get one yet, but once i do, you can have it with pleasure.

But instead of posting sniping insults, how about some answers to the questions posed?

That would help your case far more than asking for my non existent bus pass.

And instead of sniping and ranting, why not try to explain why you think it's nearly over, as opinion on the matter does rather seem to be against you. Some reasoned and valid arguments and reasons will gain you far more respect.

For the record, my reasons for thinking its not all over:

Hard left socialism doesn't work and has never worked anywhere its been tried.
It's simple economics that if you spend more than you earn you will at some point go bankrupt.
Borrowing or printing money to spend on depreciating assets is a recipe for disaster.
People that risk their money and employ people make far more for the country than anything else. YES..Philip Green and the Lion of the left, Robert Maxwell are exceptions.

And your reasons for thinking its all ending are.....?

There is massive demand for policies promising to be tough on pensioners.

bobbymotors

Hello shake...

Ok then:

Where has hard left socialism ever worked or is working now?
where's the money going to come from?
Which 60 seats is the new leader going to capture from the vile Tories?

If those questions can be reasonably and logically answered then we can have a proper debate.

Although I do agree we need an effective opposition.

I can't foresee any circumstances under which Corbyn would relinquish his leadership. It's not about the policies, it's about the power (applies to all politicians!)

bobbymotors

ruggedtoast wrote: »

There is massive demand for policies promising to be tough on pensioners.

Not by pensioners there isn't.

And they're the ones that go out and vote.

as an aside, if you've got enough money then no, you shouldn't get a bus pass, winter fuel allowance, etc.

But the means testing involved would be so bureaucratic and expensive that it won't happen

However, once again

Where has hard left socialism ever worked or is working now?
where's the money going to come from?
Which 60 seats is the new leader going to capture from the vile Tories?

ruggedtoast

Corbyn's policies are not especially left wing. They are slightly left of France and Germany and moderate for Scandinavia.

But then those are all countries you lot look at with fear and anger anyway.

bobbymotors

Corbyn's policies are not especially left wing.

If you believe that, we really are in trouble.

bobbymotors

They are slightly left of France (yes they're doing really well, so much so that everyone wants to claim asylum there...oh hang on, no thats us) and Germany (rioting over mass immigration, Merkel (left wing)on the way out) and moderate for Scandinavia (£8 for a small beer, sounds a bundle of fun)

ruggedtoast

ruggedtoast wrote: »

Yes, that's a reasoned and quite probable outcome. Outside of the bubbles these forumites inhabit, the world is changing.

bobbymotors wrote: »

Corbyn's policies are not especially left wing.

If you believe that, we really are in trouble.

Your problem is you are an economic illiterate. You seem to think we still use the gold standard.

The boomers have loaded debt onto the young. It's time your assets were used to take it out of the monetary system.

One way or the other.

bobbymotors

once again

Where has hard left socialism ever worked or is working now?
where's the money going to come from?
Which 60 seats is the new leader going to capture from the vile Tories?

Please just answer instead of ranting, it does you no favours, honestly.