The EU: IN or OUT?

Ballard

Supa_T wrote: »

You've almost argued against yourself there with "perhaps technically not".

Whilst I believe that neither side were fully honest during the debate, I really dislike the fact that some people are now blaming Farage/Johnson etc. for "going back on their pledges" when none we made.

As I said before, the language being used will have been very specific, and people either didn't understand that or are deliberately misunderstanding it (a bit like the 'Leavers' who thought that voting out meant that the UK would suddenly start kicking out Polish people...)

I think that you'd have to be incredibly one-eyed not to see one side driving around in a big red bus with that slogan on as not seriously implying that they would carry through with it should the vote go their way.

The long form would be 'let us' which I would take as 'allow us'.

Not that it matters. We all knew that the £350m wasn't correct so you'd have to have been very gullible to have believed the slogan anyway.

doe808

bigadaj wrote: »

It's interesting people in finance now being so concerned about the uk car industry, all the people who have said manufacturing is dead in the uk. With specific reference then we're still a net importer of cars, maybe people should be showing their loyalty to the country by buying nissans, Toyotas and Hondas.

Think people tend to forget that manufacturing is still the second biggest contributor to GDP in the UK (though way behind services in terms of percentage). However, the Brexit agenda seemed to be pushing an idea that we don't make things anymore.

In fact, if it wasn't for EU funding over the last 20 years, we would be making a lot less, especially in Northern England and Scotland. So it doesn't in any way seem logical to me to then close off access to our biggest market. But thats just me. Others will take a different view.

doe808

Ballard wrote: »

Not that it matters. We all knew that the £350m wasn't correct so you'd have to have been very gullible to have believed the slogan anyway.

Think thats the crux of the matter. You'd have to be pretty daft to place any weight on claims like that.

Only thing you should believe written on buses is the destination. And take that with a pinch of salt, n'all.

Scarpacci

doe808 wrote: »

In fact, if it wasn't for EU funding over the last 20 years, we would be making a lot less, especially in Northern England and Scotland. So it doesn't in any way seem logical to me to then close off access to our biggest market. But thats just me. Others will take a different view.

That might be true in some cases, but without EU funding to take away Cadbury plants to Poland or Gillette factories to Slovakia, we might be making more in this country.

It's a pretty dishonourable system which meant as net contributors we were not only paying more than our fair share to start with, we were literally paying for privilege of seeing jobs disappear from Britain.

brianh

Over the short term it must be clear to everyone that the economy will suffer by leaving the single markets use common sense not short term movements in the FTSE. The questions remaining are by how much will it suffer and will the amount be negated by the advantages of leaving the EU (that bit is subjective).
More difficult to answer is - in the longer term how will the economy be affected ? I doubt anyone will know that for many a year.

Daniel54

EnglishMohican wrote: »

Remainers are always keen to point out that lots of experts forecast a downturn in the economy but generally the experts put a percentage onto it, an error range around it and it was a reduction in future growth rather than the present level of the economy.

Remain and leave is over.The question was always the extent of economic damage Brexit would cause and the consensus was that the damage would be a severe and most likely self imposed recession coupled with long term reduction of inwards investment

Have a stiff drink and read the latest forecast in tweets from the think tank of The Economist.Now the referendum is over,this cannot be dismissed as propaganda.I hope to God they are over-pessimistic

http://www.vox.com/2016/6/29/12060072/brexit-economic-forecast-economist

Daniel54

doe808 wrote: »

Think thats the crux of the matter. You'd have to be pretty daft to place any weight on claims like that.

Do you genuinely not understand that voters did believe it ( including some on various of these forums)

EnglishMohican

Do you genuinely not understand that voters did believe that a severe and self impose recession is going to happen (including some on various of these forums)
Maybe the experts will be right for once, maybe not. But at least we do not have an immediate budget with higher taxes and cuts in services as some predicted.

doe808

brianh wrote: »

Over the short term it must be clear to everyone that the economy will suffer by leaving the single markets use common sense not short term movements in the FTSE. The questions remaining are by how much will it suffer and will the amount be negated by the advantages of leaving the EU (that bit is subjective).
More difficult to answer is - in the longer term how will the economy be affected ? I doubt anyone will know that for many a year.

Its going to be a long term to work through.

Lets just hope the Economist is wrong.

Revised forecasting now of a decline in investment of 8% and decline in private consumption of 3% (both 2017) with the pound leveling out at $1.24.

Falling tax revenue and higher unemployment.

2018 GDP now 4% below pre-referendum forecasts.

Public sector debt burden forecast to be 100% of GDP by 2018.

https://twitter.com/AlexWhite1812/status/748194881898700801

Usually find that the Economist is quite conservative on these things, unfortunately.

doe808

Daniel54 wrote: »

Do you genuinely not understand that voters did believe it ( including some on various of these forums)

Suppose it tells you alot about those people then.