The EU: IN or OUT?

zagfles

Mr_Costcutter wrote: »

What I find equally embarrassing is the way in which the country seems to have split into 2 camps. The remain camp seems to feel that they are intellectually superior to those who voted out.
I actually gave a great deal of thought to my decision to vote Leave and feel it would be extremely arrogant to assume that those voting Remain, did not.

Err...where did I say that? I referred to politicians, and the England football team, and the whole country. The main point was that no-one seems to have a plan.

This will be my last post on this thread and I would like to make one final point. People who voted Leave come from 'all' social classes and age groups. Many are highly educated people with valid reasons for arriving at their decision. .

Indeed there are. And some are thick xenophobes you tell you to eff off to Europe if you don't like it here, when they've just voted to come out of the EU in order to stop free movement :rotfl:

Ballard

doe808 wrote: »

One of the best arguments I heard in favor of leaving was from a farm worker who had seen his wage fall by £2.50 an hour. You certainly couldn't call him stupid.

I have to admit that I didn't look into how Brexit would affect farming. As I understand it, farmers receive EU funds from the much hated CAP. How will they get funded once that stops? Why would the farm worker get an increase? Is it a case of more expensive food? I assume that it's not the latter as I've seen plenty of vote leave posts on Facebook stating that food will be cheaper.

This is a genuine question. I'm reasonably sure that the farmers union wanted out (or if not, it was a close call) so there must be good reasons. I just don't know them.

masonic

Ballard wrote: »

I have to admit that I didn't look into how Brexit would affect farming. As I understand it, farmers receive EU funds from the much hated CAP. How will they get funded once that stops? Why would the farm worker get an increase? Is it a case of more expensive food? I assume that it's not the latter as I've seen plenty of vote leave posts on Facebook stating that food will be cheaper.

This is a genuine question. I'm reasonably sure that the farmers union wanted out (or if not, it was a close call) so there must be good reasons. I just don't know them.

It could have come from the £350m per week if we weren't so committed to spending that on the NHS

Ballard

masonic wrote: »

It could have come from the £350m per week if we weren't so committed to spending that on the NHS

That was a point that I made repeatedly before the vote but there has been no mention of that since. Strange that.

I really don't get the point about cheap food, though. My guess is that it was just made up in the assumption that no one would ask.

It's a bit like the point made by someone who's name escapes me that shop workers salaries would increase. This isn't a bad thing but everyone has to realise that that increase would have to come at the expense of more expensive goods. It's not going to come from the margin or the phantom £350m.

EnglishMohican

I believe the Farmers Union recommended an In vote though there was some arguement about it.

You ask how they will get funded once CAP no longer applies. Well the government of the day could - stress the could - continue it out of the £350m (OK, don't tell me it was not £350m - at least the rebate should be subtracted as we have been getting that and the arguement that in the future it is not in our control no longer applies.)(Also Gove very clearly stated that the sum available easily for the NHS was the part of the £350m that was spent outside the UK.)

Lets assume that in future an unending supply of foreign workers are no longer available to tend the fields. That leads to a shortage of workers and to attract enough, the farmer has to offer better pay. Therefore our farmworker gets back the wage cut he suffered. It is then likely that some or all food will cost more. But our farmworker has more money so he can afford it. Hopefully we can generalise this individual case to all low paid workers.

So now our poorer workers are richer and the difference between the rich and poor has narrowed.

Very simplified and idealised with a lot of assumptions but a good outcome if it happens.

doe808

Ballard wrote: »

I have to admit that I didn't look into how Brexit would affect farming. As I understand it, farmers receive EU funds from the much hated CAP. How will they get funded once that stops? Why would the farm worker get an increase? Is it a case of more expensive food? I assume that it's not the latter as I've seen plenty of vote leave posts on Facebook stating that food will be cheaper.

This is a genuine question. I'm reasonably sure that the farmers union wanted out (or if not, it was a close call) so there must be good reasons. I just don't know them.

Again not sure how farming will be effected. I suspect it will be up to the UK to make up any shortfall. Maybe from the £350 million extra a week we will now have. Maybe the farmers losing out might be a good thing- after all the EU grants were seen as reasonably generous (not sure if they are or not).

Point I was making on the farm worker was that he had been directly effected by Europe for the worst (apologies if this wasn't clear). I wonder how may people believed they were put in a worse position by Europe, but really weren't.

I'm thinking directly about the FT research that says the areas that most direct depended on Europe for funding, were the most likley to vote out (e.g. parts of northern England and bits of Wales). Hardly the areas that Conservatives will be rushing out to help....

EnglishMohican

doe808 wrote: »

..... I'm thinking directly about the FT research that says the areas that most direct depended on Europe for funding, were the most likley to vote out (e.g. parts of northern England and bits of Wales). Hardly the areas that Conservatives will be rushing out to help....

Hopefully the Conservatives will work out that they are next in line after the EU administration and try to do something to help the poorer areas of the country. If not then they deserve to lose the next election even if it does put Corbyn in charge.

JohnRo

EnglishMohican wrote: »

You ask how they will get funded once CAP no longer applies. Well the government of the day could - stress the could - continue it out of the £350m

You really don't get it do you.

masonic

EnglishMohican wrote: »

Hopefully the Conservatives will work out that they are next in line after the EU administration and try to do something to help the poorer areas of the country. If not then they deserve to lose the next election even if it does put Corbyn in charge.

Of course, one of the consequences of the vote has been that Scotland is now making noises about wanting to leave us. Personally, I don't see it happening with the oil price where it is now, but if it did, the Conservatives would not be losing many elections thereafter.

EnglishMohican

JohnRo wrote: »

You really don't get it do you.

Thank you for your post. It must have taken you a long time to think of such a sage and informative sentence.

Perhaps you would like to contribute a thought rather than just a put down occasionally