The EU: IN or OUT?

JohnRo

I was saddened to hear a hate filled brexiteer murdered her.

Thrugelmir

Catapa wrote: »

• Common standards for a single market, the world's biggest.
• Economic growth. Integration of 28 democracies, including former communist countries or dictatorships like Greece, Spain and Portugal.
• Clean rivers, clean beaches.
• Clean seas (fish stocks are growing again).
• Cleaner air.
• Free movement of labour, easing pressure in areas of low economic growth, filling vacancies in areas of faster growth.
• End to acid rain.
• Lead free petrol.
• Cheaper air travel.
• Passport free travel in the Schengen Zone, concentrating resources in intelligence.
• The Euro.
• Much improved cross border train travel.
• Competition among cargo train operators across borders.
• Cheaper roaming.
• Interpol.
• Cross borders policing (eg Brit police checking out hooligans in France).
• Extradition rules for criminals (no more hiding at 'Costa del Crime').
• Much improved recognition of professional qualification across borders.
• Access to education in any EU country to the same conditions as locals (eg free university tuition in Germany et al).
• Peace, not just between the UK and France, but between Germany and Poland etc, also on the Balkans.
• ...

I note there's no reference to the Common Agricultural Policy.

Why does our food cost us more than it should due to subsidising uneconomic farmers particularly in France. .

mrginge

uk1 wrote: »

I was somewhat saddened to read in this morning's times that Stephen Kinnock, a junior member of the well known Kinncok EU gravy train dynasty invoked Jo Cox's memory in pursuit of the reaminers cause. Shameful.

These were his comments which were in an article ostensibly about Jo which I find shamefully opportunist and should be condemned by both the remain and exit side.

one wonders if he would have been so vocal if someone with severe mental health issue had killed one of the brexit politicians.

GrowingTheSeed

I'll be voting out

Dird

Some other benefits of the EU:

• Growing unemployment (1.5% to 5.5%). This is with the government/businesses cheating by classing a person on a 0 hours contract as being employed. Perhaps if there was less oversupply (Poles etc) at the lower end of the market they would be more likely to offer British high school graduates/people who wasted their time studying art/history/geography contracts of 40 hours instead of 0-16 hours

• Shrinking of the pound as we're no longer able to adapt to a global market

• Inability to make our own free trade agreements with members of the common wealth or China/America

• Growing NHS wait times

• Increased battle for school places

• Growing national debt to try & help meet increased demand for the previous 2; the myth that migrants are net contributors as it excludes the required infrastructure costs

• The rise of Nigel Farage

EnglishMohican wrote: »

The Euro
A rather dubious advantage given the problems it is suffering. If it can be implemented better then it might be good but its not showing much sign of it at present.

I think he was talking more from our POV which I must admit I do like being able to use the same currency in Spain as I can in the Netherlands but it's hardly a reason to sway a decision

BananaRepublic

There was a BBC R4 programme on the EU at lunchtime, Tim Harford and More or Less, which was interesting. It seems reasonably balanced, in that he looks at a range of views, making clear when they are opinion, and analysing the statistics. It suports the view that both sides are guilty of hyperbole and mirepresentation.

Apparently the EU has little in the way of free trade deals with big countries such as China. So much for being part of a large partnership.

The BBC news site had a quote from an EU official who thought we would get a decent trade deal with the EU if we left. Which means that we would still get inward investment from Japan et al, and the City would be okay. Of course we would have to pay to gain access. What we would lose would be a direct say in the future shape of the EU, but I doubt we have much say anyway, and the person who represents us is a political appointee. So overall I think we would if outside see little change in payments to the EU, and immigration, but we would be free of direct political interference, which is enough for me. The EU payments do reduce the cost of trade with the EU, so are probably decent value. Maybe we would pay less, in that we would be paying for access, rather than to support Greece, Poland etc.

uk1

BananaRepublic wrote: »

There was a BBC R4 programme on the EU at lunchtime, Tim Harford and More or Less, which was interesting. It seems reasonably balanced, in that he looks at a range of views, making clear when they are opinion, and analysing the statistics. It suports the view that both sides are guilty of hyperbole and mirepresentation.

Apparently the EU has little in the way of free trade deals with big countries such as China. So much for being part of a large partnership.

The BBC news site had a quote from an EU official who thought we would get a decent trade deal with the EU if we left. Which means that we would still get inward investment from Japan et al, and the City would be okay. Of course we would have to pay to gain access. What we would lose would be a direct say in the future shape of the EU, but I doubt we have much say anyway, and the person who represents us is a political appointee. So overall I think we would if outside see little change in payments to the EU, and immigration, but we would be free of direct political interference, which is enough for me. The EU payments do reduce the cost of trade with the EU, so are probably decent value. Maybe we would pay less, in that we would be paying for access, rather than to support Greece, Poland etc.

I have no idea how the vote will go, particularly after the last few days.

What I think has been underestimated is how much pain brexiters are prepared to tolerate in the short term in the belief - rightly or wrongly - for both principles and because they think the longer term benefits are greater.

Jeff

jimjames

uk1 wrote: »

I have no idea how the vote will go, particularly after the last few days.

What I think has been underestimated is how much pain brexiters are prepared to tolerate in the short term in the belief - rightly or wrongly - for both principles and because they think the longer term benefits are greater.

Jeff

I'd say a lot have no idea what pain will come if we leave. The economic situation here has been quite benign over the last few years with interest rates and inflation both stable. I think it is highly likely that both will rise possibly substantially if we leave and I'm not sure many leavers are expecting mortgage rates to go up.

Thrugelmir

Less than 5% of UK companies export to the EU. Factor in multinational companies and those owned by overseas investors. Then the actual number of totally UK based companies is relatively small. The figures being bandied about are so misleading.

uk1

jimjames wrote: »

I'd say a lot have no idea what pain will come if we leave. The economic situation here has been quite benign over the last few years with interest rates and inflation both stable. I think it is highly likely that both will rise possibly substantially if we leave and I'm not sure many leavers are expecting mortgage rates to go up.

With respect, you have no more idea what will happen than anyone else.



Jeff