The EU: IN or OUT?

doe808

uk1 wrote: »

Thanks for "getting" my point, I appreciate it.

What nudged my observation was not just the "convenience" I outlined in my post, but also what MP's could have done more appropriately was immediately suspend Parliament for the rest of yesterday, and perhaps make a donation of yesterday's pay to one of Jo's charities in her memory of her, her passions and good work and in her name. Perhaps Lords could have suspended the rest pf the sitting as well, and donated a day's attendance allowance. That would have shown a much more appropriate and genuine reaction. Instead both Houses continued with their business as though Jo's murder hadn't occured and the Lords took their day's pay as did all MPs. They chose instead to do something they wanted and needed to do anyway.

I do not know Jo, but I find myself wondering whether she would approve of this debate being halted about this issue under the guise of it being to "respect her memory". I obviously do not know, but have a nagging doubt and think it just as likely or more likely that she would wish the debate to vigorously proceed so that the British people make the right decision having heard as much argument either way as possible.

That was my point and thanks again for "getting" it.

Jeff

Nether House is sitting at the moment, and haven't been since the start of recess.So that wouldn't work.

Did you just make the part about going on with their business up?

Bogof_Babe

doe808 wrote: »

Nether House is sitting at the moment, and haven't been since the start of recess.So that wouldn't work.

Did you just make the part about going on with their business up?

I was shocked to learn that they are "in recess" in the middle of June. Surely this isn't the start of their summer break?

However, as yesterday's tragic events showed all too clearly, I appreciate that MPs have work to do in their constituencies as well as in London, but a recess for a few months does seem to leave the country rather exposed, doesn't it?

uk1

Bogof_Babe wrote: »

I was shocked to learn that they are "in recess" in the middle of June. Surely this isn't the start of their summer break?

However, as yesterday's tragic events showed all too clearly, I appreciate that MPs have work to do in their constituencies as well as in London, but a recess for a few months does seem to leave the country rather exposed, doesn't it?

Not all. The UK still includes the Scots ..... and they were working normally all day yesterday including First Ministers Questions .....

Perhaps they believe in working them harder up there.

Jeff

doe808

Bogof_Babe wrote: »

I was shocked to learn that they are "in recess" in the middle of June. Surely this isn't the start of their summer break?

However, as yesterday's tragic events showed all too clearly, I appreciate that MPs have work to do in their constituencies as well as in London, but a recess for a few months does seem to leave the country rather exposed, doesn't it?

Without checking, I think its around a week for constituency work.

doe808

uk1 wrote: »

Not all. The UK still includes the Scots ..... and they were working normally all day yesterday including First Ministers Questions .....

Perhaps they believe in working them harder up there.

Jeff

Sorry but you refereed to the House of Lords and House of Commons sitting and continuing with their daily business. Scotland does not have ether a House of Lords or House of Commons.

You made something up to back up a point, by the looks of it.

EnglishMohican

@Catapa. Thank you for your post; it is good to see an attempt at a serious debate amongst so much meaningless trivia. However some items are pushing your luck and many could have happened without the EU. It may even be that the EU slows down improvements by insisting on all countries agreeing to common standards. It could be better to let the countries suffering from particular afflictions work on them and solve them and let the others follow when ready or necessary.

Catapa wrote: »

Common standards for a single market, the world's biggest

Except for the mains plugs fitted and the language of the instruction book and packaging - so not true common standards - but not bad.

Catapa wrote: »

Economic growth. Integration of 28 democracies, including former communist countries or dictatorships like Greece, Spain and Portugal.

Economic growth that results in 40% youth unemployement is rather questionable as is the degree of integration.

Catapa wrote: »

Free movement of labour, easing pressure in areas of low economic growth, filling vacancies in areas of faster growth.

On the other hand is the reduction of salaries and therefore living standards in faster growth areas and the removal of the brightest and most go-getting people from the low growth areas that need them to generate some growth.

Catapa wrote: »

The Euro.

A rather dubious advantage given the problems it is suffering. If it can be implemented better then it might be good but its not showing much sign of it at present.

Catapa wrote: »

Cheaper roaming.

And higher costs internally as the operators recover the losses on roaming. Help for a few, a penalty for many.

Catapa wrote: »

Interpol.

Interpol dates back to the 1920s and includes 190 countries (Wikipedia) - so nothing to do with the EU. Factually false claims such as this weaken my faith in your list of other advantages.

Catapa wrote: »

Extradition rules for criminals (no more hiding at 'Costa del Crime')

I believe there were extradition rules long before the EU. The continuing strengthening of them may be down to the EU but could also just be ongoing progress. The European arrest warrant has downsides when UK nationals are tried by administrations with much lower standards of justice and efficiency than is reasonable.

Catapa wrote: »

Peace, not just between the UK and France, but between Germany and Poland etc, also on the Balkans.

Peace created by things like the Marshall plan, NATO and a different attitude to other countries. Maybe allowing the EU to develop rather than being created by the EU.

uk1

doe808 wrote: »

Sorry but you refereed to the House of Lords and House of Commons sitting and continuing with their daily business. Scotland does not have ether a House of Lords or House of Commons.

You made something up to back up a point, by the looks of it.

No I "didn't make it up" ... and it wasn't "to back up a point" .... my main point was that the gesture should be a days pay donated to her favourite charity. I apologise for the error. I made the point badly and you corrected me.

Thanks.

Jeff

doe808

uk1 wrote: »

No I "didn't make it up" ... and it wasn't "to back up a point" .... my main point was that the gesture should be a days pay donated to her favourite charity. I apologise for the error. I made the point badly and you corrected me.

Thanks.

Jeff

no problem. apology accepted. and agreed on the donation point.

d

uk1

doe808 wrote: »

no problem. apology accepted. and agreed on the donation point.

d

Thanks.

I had been watching the EU debate on Wednesday afternoon on TV in the House, and on Thursday morning the Scots to see if their was any more EU stuff there .... a bit of a focus at the moment ..., and I had just simply overlooked that they had gone into recess down South.

Jo Cox would have liked her colleagues to support some of her pet causes I'm sure. I also think it more likely that she would have preferred her colleagues to carry on fighting the remain argument on her behalf over these couple of days, but that is simply an opinion.

Jeff

uk1

I was somewhat saddened to read in this morning's times that Stephen Kinnock, a junior member of the well known Kinncok EU gravy train dynasty invoked Jo Cox's memory in pursuit of the reaminers cause. Shameful.

These were his comments which were in an article ostensibly about Jo which I find shamefully opportunist and should be condemned by both the remain and exit side.

‘Remember Jo at the ballot box’

“What I know is what Jo stood for and believed in — her values of internationalism, partnership and solidarity and, of course, those are the values that are being debated now. And we have to look at what Jo stood for. It will be one of the thousands of things we should think about when we go to the ballot box next week.”

“A vote to leave will be a vote to usher in the most rightwing Tory government that we’ve ever seen. If we do Brexit, I think it will be real oxygen to the Front National, to Geert Wilders [leader of the Dutch Party for Freedom], to Alternative for Deutschland to the Five Star movement in Italy, to what is happening with [the nationalist party] Jobbik in Hungary. There are some really nasty characters out there.”