The EU: IN or OUT?

BananaRepublic

moneyfoolish wrote: »

I want May because she's the only one of the realistic winners who presented herself like a Prime Minister. I heard her speech on the radio when she disclosed she would be a candidate and she talked sense and in the restrained way that I expect of a leader. She has experience in a top cabinet post which Leadson does not. I watches all of the pre-referendum debates on TV and was completely unimpressed with Leadson whose only answer to virtually every question was that we should "take control". She sounded pretty dim to me. I actually voted to leave based on the few facts I knew once I had discarded what I perceived to be lies on both sides but, after seeing the initial consequences, I would vote to remain if I knew then what I know now. Of the other candidates, the only one I might have been happy with was Gove but after all his double dealing he's proved himself not suitable for high office as far as I'm concerned although, sadly, I suspect that most politicians are probably just as untrustworthy!

We have seen in the past that what counts is a steady hand, and the ability to manage the cabinet i.e. allocate good people to posts, and leave them in place long enough to do a good job. Blair was notorious for moving people before they mastered their brief, and indulging in government by sofa, whereby he would sit a minister down on the sofa, and then tell them what the policy would be.

Gove does indeed come across as an untrustworthy double crossing so and so.

BananaRepublic

buglawton wrote: »

But she's Cameron in a skirt.

Have they never appeared together at the same time? I must admit discovering that our PM is a cross dresser is a surprise, but then again, you just have to look at numerous scandals in the House of Lords, and Houses of Parliament.

Ballard

blutto wrote: »

By the way if it had been the other way round I bet no one would have been calling to ignore the result,rallies ,media interest and the BBC would have packed up on the Friday that week as they would have got what they wanted,'west London dinner circuit and luvvies dreams' away from reality and out for number 1!

Are you serious here? Do you honestly think that had the result been reversed that the leave campaigners would have simply said 'Oh well, never mind, democracy won'? If you truly think that then you're deluded. Farage himself said that he'd call for a new referendum if it was 48-52 but that's now been forgotten by the leavers. http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/nigel-farage-eu-referendum_uk_576e6585e4b08d2c56393f12

Don't get me wrong, as much as I think that leaving is a mistake we have to go through with it. I'm not marching on the streets or calling for a new vote. The masses voted and that's that.

Gadfium

CLAPTON wrote: »

he is a totally biased europhile with no credibility anywhere

Random person on internet claims that a Cambridge educated professor, one who specialises in EU law, has peer-reviewed publications dating back to 1998 and who teaches EU and public law at graduate level has "no credibility".
:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

Would you care to point out your qualifications and experience in the field that qualifies you form that opinion Clapton, or should we just accept your position as coming from ignorance?

Once you have established your credentials could you then point out the parts in Prof. Dougan's speech that you can show to be incorrect, rather than just try to rubbish the man's reputation? Otherwise we might just think that you are only capable of a personal attack...

Gadfium

buglawton wrote: »

Does it need a professor to tell me Joe Public what was plain-obvious on day 1, that both Leave and Remain campaigns were 'disingenuous'?

The only question for me was, which was the most dishonest, examples being '£350m per week for the NHS' or 'Brexit will cost £4300 per household'. The predictions coming from the govt side were the most pernicious as the the spokespersons should have known better.

All in all I think the Brexit campaign did the least lying.

I'm struggling to find a Brexit claim that was based on truth to be honest.
Immigration? Nope.
NHS funding? Nope
The UK consistently loses in the EU (Jacob Rees-Mogg)? Nope.
Turkey will join the EU in a couple of years? Nope.
A free trade deal with the EU? Nope.


Yes there were exaggerations on both sides, but the Leave campaign was based on little more than lies and exaggerations.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/22/eu-referendum-fact-checking-the-big-claims1/
https://next.ft.com/content/133da9c0-f7f7-11e5-803c-d27c7117d132

Dominic Cummings, one of the architects of Leave, was questioned and lied through his teeth and is either unbelievably stupid or evasive. :
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2016/apr/20/eu-referendum-brexit-would-put-special-relationship-with-us-at-risk-uk-warned-politics-live
https://youtu.be/fJjShkGCa4c

Dird

His job depends on British people giving a crap about EU laws in the future. If most of the major corps move their HQs to the mainland then the number of students caring about it will drop significantly as the jobs will dry up unless they can get a work visa for Brussels etc

blutto

Gadfium wrote: »

Random person on internet claims that a Cambridge educated professor, one who specialises in EU law, has peer-reviewed publications dating back to 1998 and who teaches EU and public law at graduate level has "no credibility".
:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

Would you care to point out your qualifications and experience in the field that qualifies you form that opinion Clapton, or should we just accept your position as coming from ignorance?

Once you have established your credentials could you then point out the parts in Prof. Dougan's speech that you can show to be incorrect, rather than just try to rubbish the man's reputation? Otherwise we might just think that you are only capable of a personal attack...

Ok ,now are you telling me that 'Remain' was HONEST! :rotfl: Told the truth? :rotfl: They lied WAY MORE than Leave and Please do not go on about that Red Bus as its IRRELEVENT! WHY? As the sum on the bus would stay here to be spent on what ever the Government of the day wishes to use it for and a large chunk could go towards the NHS!:T Not be wasted by Elitists Jobsworths in Brussels on themselves and Crap! Look at the Kinnocks worth well over £10 million for doing jack !!!!! No wonder they wanted to remain in the EU as they have been on the winner!:mad: Did nothing of any worth,jokers! >>> True Champaign Socialism< 'say one thing and live the other' ! Do not believe in fcuk all what they preach,hypocrites and luvvie scum!;)

The fact is all these so-called experts and Professors are biast and always get it wrong! Everyone knew the morning after the markets would go hay-wire as brokers and their firms were waiting months ready with their action plan how to make the most£ out of the result in money terms! They were biding all night to reaction around the world on money markets! Its all about the greed and do not care about sliding the £ !:(

The £ will rise up again and the markets will steady out and last week they were back up to somewhere in 2012 a high point so its all games being played to make money!

To sum-up all these so experts argue the case to BENEFIT themsleves or the company/department they work for! Basically out for number 1 then!

Universities want more funding so no wonder they want to keep the cap n hand attitude begging at the EU door! Top ones prefer taking students from around the world instead of teaching British kids! No wonder we are dumbing down are own! Once again £ wins and sod the indigenous population! All those working class white youngsters loosing out to everybody else and you wonder why there's been silent discontent! Now its been let out of the bag! :eek:
Do not agree on hate crimes but can see why some are resorting to these tactics as feel left behind and ignored by the Elite and use such tactics to get attention at the pain of others . The Elite brought all this on themselves!

magpiecottage

I am not a Tory but Theresa May IS my MP.

In my experience she does what she says she will. The latest example was on 25 June when, despite all the turmoil (and her husband being unwell), she not only attended an event she said she would but stayed for the full time promised.

Whilst I may not always agree with her politics, she does have a safe pair of hands.

So I think she should be given David Cameron's job.

Or, failing that, Joe Hart's.

Thrugelmir

blutto wrote: »

11. Both candidates will not be popular at the next General Election and if Labour gets its act together,will bury the Tories due to both candidates have no appeal really?

There's more chance of snow tomorrow. As there's been no coherent policy plan on any major issue for some years now.

jimjames

Ballard wrote: »

Don't get me wrong, as much as I think that leaving is a mistake we have to go through with it. I'm not marching on the streets or calling for a new vote. The masses voted and that's that.

I completely agree that round the other way there would have been plenty of voices disagreeing with the result.

However I think the extent of the deception and that the "scaremongering" now being shown to be based on reality could well be reasons to reconsider.

People voting to leave had no idea what they were voting for other than leaving EU. It would be entirely within the result for the UK to retain freedom of movement as well as payments into the EU budget if we weren't actually a member but were in EEA instead. Quite what that would achieve apart from not being able to influence any decisions is beyond me.

JohnRo wrote: »

I think referendums should be banned and the last one held up as the definitive reason why.

It would be pretty ironic if parliament voted not to activate Article 50 to leave when the Brexit campaign was all about UK parliament having the final say on decisions that affect the UK. What could affect us more than such a momentous decision to leave EU.