The EU: IN or OUT?

Ballard

BananaRepublic wrote: »

And anyone who voted stay should explain the workings of the EU, and the interaction with the UK.

I don't pretend to know the complete workings of the EU but I do know that we can trade freely with other member states. Once we leave we won't unless a new deal is brokered. The only statement that I've seen from leavers is that Germany will want to sell us cars. No indication of the terms of such a deal.

This means, to my mind, that we will leave a free trade group in the expectation that we will get a better deal because of Volkswagen. Seems to be a high stakes gamble to me.

Dird

doe808 wrote: »

Interested to hear your analysis on the free movement of trade/tariffs/EEC points then, if possible.

Either we get free trade or we don't. My concern is they backstep and still accept free movement of poles.

Either we keep the status quo of goods/services or we don't. The world will continue either way. Both Bernie Sanders & Donald Trump want trade agreements tossed away so they're not all fine & dandy

Ballard

Dird wrote: »

Either we get free trade or we don't. My concern is they backstep and still accept free movement of poles.

Either we keep the status quo of goods/services or we don't. The world will continue either way. Both Bernie Sanders & Donald Trump want trade agreements tossed away so they're not all fine & dandy

This is exactly what I've heard from countless leavers and it simply doesn't make any sense to me. If we don't have a fta with the EU then we will be FAR less attractive to foreign companies. Why would, for example, Sony open a new plant here if it would mean tariffs being applied when sold within the EU.

The EU have also said all along that free movement is central to trade agreements. Now that they've reiterated it they're accused of bullying.

That's why I see leavers as myopic.

Thrugelmir

Ballard wrote: »

I don't pretend to know the complete workings of the EU but I do know that we can trade freely with other member states. Once we leave we won't unless a new deal is brokered. The only statement that I've seen from leavers is that Germany will want to sell us cars. No indication of the terms of such a deal.

Many British cars are exported out through Antwerp and Rotterdam currently. I'm sure London Gateway will happily take the trade.

The UK is BMW's largest export market. That's Merkels concern as well.

Ballard

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Many British cars are exported out through Antwerp and Rotterdam currently. I'm sure London Gateway will happily take the trade.

The UK is BMW's largest export market. That's Merkels concern as well.

Well that's fine and dandy then. The EU will make an exception for us. I don't know why I was worrying.

discat11

Dird wrote: »

Either we get free trade or we don't. My concern is they backstep and still accept free movement of poles.

Just Poles or do you have other nationalities in mind also?

Speaking as someone who lives in a town full of wartime Polish families and new Polish families I find them polite, hard working and a pleasure to work with, I went to school with plenty of 2nd and 3rd generation Poles and never even acknowledged they were at all different -which of course, they weren't/aren't.

Wages are low in Poland (and prices also for meals out/travel/shopping etc) hence the better educated people can find far better wages here.
I'd wager that we gain far more from Polish immigrants taxes than we spend on having them here.

It's a matter of record that there are far more British benefits claimants in the EU than we have EU claimants here.
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/britons-claiming-benefits-across-eu-outnumber-immigrants-getting-welfare-uk-1484091

Dird

Ballard wrote: »

Why would, for example, Sony open a new plant here if it would mean tariffs being applied when sold within the EU.

Everything is made in China now

discat11 wrote: »

Just Poles or do you have other nationalities in mind also?

Any foreigner doing what every non-EU country would deem an unskilled job. Any foreigner rejected a work visa by the majority of countries in the world.

discat11 wrote: »

I'd wager that we gain far more from Polish immigrants taxes than we spend on having them here.

This is false. They may take less benefits than they pay in tax but this isn't their total cost. A sudden population surge like 300k/year means the population of Birmingham every 3 years. The population of Birmingham has 300 primary schools, 100 high schools meaning a vaguely equivalent amount of spaces required & people have long complained about school shortages already. The government is so poor to fund this that they brought in academies so the house of Saud can fund Tomorrow's terrorists in Birmingham

discat11 wrote: »

It's a matter of record that there are far more British benefits claimants in the EU than we have EU claimants here.
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/britons-claiming-benefits-across-eu-outnumber-immigrants-getting-welfare-uk-1484091

You say it is a matter of record but don't provide it? Everyone knows that if you want to milk the system here you work for like 16 hours/week and get all the benefits & CTC that your heart desires like that trollop who had 12 kids & wanted a sperm donor: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JqreWTZsF2M

Ballard

Wow. That's an astonishing post by blutto. I'm wondering how many forum rules it has breached.

magpiecottage

BananaRepublic wrote: »

And anyone who voted stay should explain the workings of the EU, and the interaction with the UK.

The leave party were the ones arguing for change. So it is encumbent on them to show that their assertion (that it will be advantageous to leave) is better than the status quo not for the remain said to prove otherwise.

Thrugelmir

magpiecottage wrote: »

The leave party were the ones arguing for change. So it is encumbent on them to show that their assertion (that it will be advantageous to leave) is better than the status quo not for the remain said to prove otherwise.

What's the status quo. The EU is fundamentally flawed in it's current form. Nor are the EU Brussels elite accountable to anyone. A major concern given the economic state of the EU as a whole. The UK cannot prop it up with consumer spending forever.