The EU: IN or OUT?

discat11

[QUOTE=Dird;70950699
You say it is a matter of record but don't provide it? Everyone knows that if you want to milk the system here you work for like 16 hours/week and get all the benefits & CTC that your heart desires like that trollop who had 12 kids & wanted a sperm donor: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JqreWTZsF2M[/QUOTE]

But I gave you my source- you're the one that isn't giving sources, YouTube is hardly a source and in fact a British born idiot milking the system hardly reinforces your argument.

Sorry but I think you'll find most reasonable people would prefer to have 10 immigrants willing to work than 1 person whose only claim to fame is being born here & who thinks that they can do fcuk for a living and live off the taxpayer.

If the entire reason you voted leave is to end up with less immigrants you are seriously deluded and you've been sold the biggest packet of magic beans the world has ever seen.

Dird

discat11 wrote: »

But I gave you my source- you're the one that isn't giving sources, YouTube is hardly a source and in fact a British born idiot milking the system hardly reinforces your argument.

Sorry but I think you'll find most reasonable people would prefer to have 10 immigrants willing to work than 1 person whose only claim to fame is being born here & who thinks that they can do fcuk for a living and live off the taxpayer.

If the entire reason you voted leave is to end up with less immigrants you are seriously deluded and you've been sold the biggest packet of magic beans the world has ever seen.

You gave a source that casually ignores poorer EU countries and only focuses on unemployment benefits. People who don't work are capped at £26k benefits, people who work a small amount of hours don't have this cap. It's well known. It's also clear why someone would want to move from low pay in Poland for £20k combined salary & benefits, I'd probably do the same in their position.

Remainers seem adamant it's racist to want to function like every country in the world outside of Europe. I don't actually care whether they let in 1m/year and wreck the country's economy because I can always move to another country like I have before. It's just I'd rather the country functions like an actual country rather than a state in the European Empire. I'd much prefer a 90:10 female:male quota system too

magpiecottage

blutto wrote: »

Obviously your boy is after a plum job in Europe then

Actually no.

blutto wrote: »

or to go to University over there for a MA then?

No need - if you get a BA from Oxford you get an MA three years after graduating.

blutto wrote: »

Once again opportunity for an Oxford don to go but not for a non -ivy league Uni student.

Yes - because we are no longer in the EU. He voted to remain PRECISELY because leaving closed down opportunities for students and graduates from other universities.

blutto wrote: »

When referring to dwarfed, sure you not talking about "The Hobbit books/films"?

The Hobbit and Lord of the Rings trilogy were written by JRR Tolkein - an Oxford acedemic.

The Chronicles of Narnia were written by CS Lewis - a different Oxford academic.

It seems unlikely that an Oxford student would confuse them.

Besides, I have read them myself!

blutto wrote: »

its the guarantee that's the issue

It's not a guarantee (and he is not looking for a City job). It's an opportunity - to work and study elsewhere in Europe.

blutto wrote: »

others have not got a chance

Not if they want to do it after we leave the EU

blutto wrote: »

that's why this country is SO-BROKEN

Quite!

BananaRepublic

magpiecottage wrote: »

Does anybody know what Farage was doing at the European Parliament?

Claiming his allowances, and causing mischief. Europe is now full of right of centre euro-sceptic parties, most far more right wing than UKIP which is moderate. Some argue that the EU is creating these often not very pleasant right wing parties.

atush

Daniel54 wrote: »

Likewise - both of them

Well given the money spent to buy the place, the mods are either over paid and underworked, or not enough of them.


Shame on MSE

BananaRepublic

jimjames wrote: »

Come on then please explain what the future trade and economic deal will be. Even the Leave campaign leaders as well as government had no plan so I find it utterly bizarre than anyone voting to leave thinks they knew what it was. Some people voted to leave due to fears over immigration, some because we pay the EU money, others because they want control. Deals possible now would leave all of these unchanged.

The referendum question was "should we leave EU". It gave absolutely no further information about what should happen if we did leave. How can pointing that out be rude, patronising or condescending? Is the reality difficult to understand?

What you said was indeed rude and condescending. In part because it was grossly biased towards one side. The other side of the coin is that we have little indication about the evolution of the EU. This was not a decision over status quo versus "ohh, scary, really scary", rather it was a choice between the EU, which is constantly changing, versus being outside. You are right that the leavers did not and could not be specific. But then again, we do not know what will happen with further countries entering the EU, with integration, further loss of sovereignty and so on. We have seen huge problems in the EU, such as lending massive sums to a country that was fraudulently misrepresenting its accounts. I'm not saying the EU is bad, outside is good, I'm saying your characterisation was unfair and unbalanced. At the end of the day either decision is an act of faith.

The husband of a friend thinks we are not fit to decide and only very educated people should be allowed to decide. I see some of that attitude among some EU-crats.

atush

BananaRepublic wrote: »

Claiming his allowances, and causing mischief. Europe is now full of right of centre euro-sceptic parties, most far more right wing than UKIP which is moderate. Some argue that the EU is creating these often not very pleasant right wing parties.

He was/is on the fisheries committee. While Hugh furnley whatsit was working (w/o being paid) on the issue, NF only attended one of over 40 meetings of the committee he was supposed to attend.

i have an idea (for europe or for Parliament that expenses and perhaps even pay if you want to go that far) are reduced for every meeting or vote you dont attend?

Just a thought.

Esp for those like Nigel farage and boris, who do the work to dump us in a state of confusion, then both resign and dont help dig us out.

Surely if you feel strongly enough on an issue to get everyone to vote a certain way, it is your duty to A- have a plan if you succeed (as opposed to their case in expecting you wont so dont bother) and B- staying on at least long enough to start or support the/a/any plan.

I am disgusted with the failure of these 2 to stand with their supposed beliefs.

blutto

Pointless to argue with full of themselves/egotistic characters! They (the ones that catch the line every time as try to conceal truths) ,are 'fools a gladly' . Pity them ,I do. It's a shame they live in such a little bubble,look around more and your see the change before your eyes going on!

'Fools a gladly'. Shame.

atush

Dird wrote: »

What part of my post is racist? Blutto's on the other hand...

I am pretty sure you had one about Poles- but you may have deleted it.

Daniel54

BananaRepublic wrote: »

What you said was indeed rude and condescending. In part because it was grossly biased towards one side. The other side of the coin is that we have little indication about the evolution of the EU. This was not a decision over status quo versus "ohh, scary, really scary", rather it was a choice between the EU, which is constantly changing, versus being outside. You are right that the leavers did not and could not be specific. But then again, we do not know what will happen with further countries entering the EU, with integration, further loss of sovereignty and so on. We have seen huge problems in the EU, such as lending massive sums to a country that was fraudulently misrepresenting its accounts. I'm not saying the EU is bad, outside is good, I'm saying your characterisation was unfair and unbalanced. At the end of the day either decision is an act of faith.

The husband of a friend thinks we are not fit to decide and only very educated people should be allowed to decide. I see some of that attitude among some EU-crats.

I cannot answer for jimjames but think you have missed the point.

The ballot paper did not have a space where we could add our reasons for our vote and have any consequent right to expect those reasons to be taken into account.

We have voted to leave the EU

We now revert to representative parliamentary democracy and there is no mandate of any sort which arises from the referendum as to the post referendum settlement with the EU,or any other trading partner,or how we might wish our society to look in the future.

I don't entirely disagree with some of what you have written,but those are the reasons for your decision,not what you voted for,which was to leave the EU.

The word change was often used as a positive in the referendum debate.Fair enough.But substitute change for uncertainty ( for they are one and the same unless you know pretty clearly what that change will look like) and it might seem as much of a negative as a positive.

I will admit I had no idea of the political vacuum a leave vote would cause,but now we both do.

So I voted for the certainty that nothing of huge import would change on the morning of 24th June.It wasn't particularly broke,the economy was doing pretty well.There were significant issues to address ( I am not an adherent of austerity) but I saw no need to break it.It was not a vote of faith, because I knew ( in the event of a remain majority) that we would not have pulled any levers that would change the course of whatever might happen next

A vote for change was a vote for uncertainty.That is what we now have.That is what we have voted for in a majority

The discussion now moves on to where we go next and nothing is off the table.

I have my own ideas of where we need to go next and I'm sure you have yours,which we might civilly discuss .That is independent of what was voted on, which was to remain in or leave the EU.