The EU: IN or OUT?

magpiecottage

Thrugelmir wrote: »

The EU is fundamentally flawed in it's current form.

I am not arguing that the EU is without its faults. However, as Chilcot has shown in respect of the Iraq war, before setting off, you need to know where you are going to, what you will do when you get there and how this is going to produce a better outcome than staying where you are and making the best of what you already have.

I accept that we might be better off out bu the Leave campaign chose to slag off the Remain stance rather than putting up a coherent argument about what would be better and how it would be achieved.

There was, of course, the bus with the NHS message but as soon as the result was announced the response seems to have been to put it into reverse.

That is why I say the Leave campaign has delivered change but has shown no idea of how to deliver improvement.

You and I have disagreed on other boards in the past, Thrugelmir (and agreed on other occasions).

I think, though, that whilst our respective opinions are sometimes strongly held on both sides. This can lead to us challenging one another's views robustly - but, I hope, in a civil manner. Others on this thread might like to follow our lead.

Ballard

Dird,

I post this constructively and don't mean any offence but to say that most <whatever> have a certain trait can be considered racist. We all know that some catholic priests have been guilty of a certain heinous crime. It doesn't follow that most catholic priest have the same issues.

I hope that you take this post in the manner in which I've written it. Time to move on anyway as this isn't a suitable subject.

magpiecottage

Ballard wrote: »

Time to move on

In the wider sense, I think.

Whilst we are where those who voted Remain never wanted us to be, and I anticipate many of those who voted Leave will come to agree, it is where we are.

Remain voters are probably entitled to say "don't blame me" but it does not change the fact that we have to find a way forward.

Of the three candidates for PM, I find it hard to trust a Justice Secretary who seems to think it is okay to stab your mate in the back.

I do not think that Andrea Leadsom's lack of experience is an issue in itself - there is a first time for everything - but we really are out on a limb now.

Theresa May has been a very good constituency MP. If she becomes PM, then that is likely to suffer and be detrimental to me and many friends.

However, she is the biggest "gun" we have and she is also keeping her powder dry.

She did support the Remain campaign but, as Boris observed 52:48 is hardly a resounding victory and I think she has considerably more chance of bringing the Leave camp with her than either Gove or Leadsome have of getting the Remainers on board.

So I think we are in a mess. You may or may not agree with me but the stock markets and the value of the pound seem to support my view.

I think, too, that of the options on offer, Theresa May is the most likely to lead us to a satisfactory outcome.

Picking up on Thrugelmir's signature, I think that is the first stone to be taken from the mountain.

Dird

Italy battling with Greece to be the next big European event :-o http://money.cnn.com/2016/07/06/investing/banks-italy-brexit-crisis/

seaspray10

Hi,
As there’s so much uncertainty surrounding our exit from the EU, I was just thinking how good it would be if someone could produce a credit/debit forecast for our EU exit, as it may help to reduce the uncertainty.
Debits would include:
Let’s say 3% tariff on our exports to the EU + the amount of subsidies received from the EU.
Credits would include:
3% tariff on our imports from the EU + the amount presently paid for membership of the EU.
As it’s uncertain as to whether or not Scotland will vote for independence, it would be helpful to also create the above excluding Scotland, as the subsidies received by Scotland from both the UK and the EU would appear in credits and tax presently paid into the UK from Scottish tax payers would appear in debits.
I know this is over simplifying matters but some information has to be better than none.

atush

magpiecottage wrote: »

You confused me for a minute there.

Around the time of the first refendum and for some time afterwards, NF referred to an extreme right wing organisation called the National Front.

Still - if the cap fits.....


Incidentally, for those saying there will be no second referendum, we just had it.

I dont know if the cap fits anyone (apart from Blutto maybe) but i cant remember which post that was and what it stood for. Wouldnt be national front though

BananaRepublic

magpiecottage wrote: »

Whilst we are where those who voted Remain never wanted us to be, and I anticipate many of those who voted Leave will come to agree, it is where we are.

If I hear this nonsense one more time I will scream. I know many leavers, none of us have regrets. We all knew what would happen.

magpiecottage wrote: »

So I think we are in a mess. You may or may not agree with me but the stock markets and the value of the pound seem to support my view.

It was always known that the markets would take a hit, and indeed GDP probably will too, over the next few years. I bet most if not all leavers knew that, but balanced that against their desire to leave the EU. As for the value of the pound, this is one of the best things that has happened to Britain, assuming it stays low. Imports are now expensive, and exports are cheap. Your Korean TV will cost more, but your employer will sell more of its Made In Britain products overseas, so this is a case of 'swings and roundabouts' (best said in a sarf London accent).

Anyway, there is no need to be a drama queen, and to predict that the zombie apocalypse is upon us, we'll have a wee bit of market turmoil, but I bet that in a few years time we'll be fine. And hopefully those Eastern Europeans already here will also be content with Britain, one big happy family.

uk1

Dird wrote: »

Italy battling with Greece to be the next big European event :-o http://money.cnn.com/2016/07/06/investing/banks-italy-brexit-crisis/

Banca Monte Dei Paschi Di Siena use to be clients of ours. They claim to be the oldest bank in the world. This is really sad ... they have such a wonderful colourful history.

I hope this isn't the start of a domino effect.

uk1

BananaRepublic wrote: »

If I hear this nonsense one more time I will scream. I know many leavers, none of us have regrets. We all knew what would happen.



It was always known that the markets would take a hit, and indeed GDP probably will too, over the next few years. I bet most if not all leavers knew that, but balanced that against their desire to leave the EU. As for the value of the pound, this is one of the best things that has happened to Britain, assuming it stays low. Imports are now expensive, and exports are cheap. Your Korean TV will cost more, but your employer will sell more of its Made In Britain products overseas, so this is a case of 'swings and roundabouts' (best said in a sarf London accent).

Anyway, there is no need to be a drama queen, and to predict that the zombie apocalypse is upon us, we'll have a wee bit of market turmoil, but I bet that in a few years time we'll be fine. And hopefully those Eastern Europeans already here will also be content with Britain, one big happy family.

For some reason I do not understand, the £1:00 I put into a Virgin personal pension account to open for my wife just before the vote and pending Virgin money laundering checks approval, has increased to £1.03 in a just a few days. I wish I'd put in more.



Jeff

atush

With t he current price of oil, dont see how scotland can afford being independant?