The EU: IN or OUT?

doe808

Going to be May then after this mornings news, at least the bookies think so.

bigadaj

doe808 wrote: »

Going to be May then after this mornings news, at least the bookies think so.

Bookies record is looking pretty poor recently.

doe808

bigadaj wrote: »

Bookies record is looking pretty poor recently.

True that- I've had a very good Euros !!:D

talexuser

Well that's sorted then. We just had a vote with a big, probably the biggest, issue being immigration, so the best next PM is the person who had responsibility for immigration for 6 years and has not only been unable to fulfill 2 manifesto promises to bring it down but has overseen record levels while cutting border control staff.

doe808

talexuser wrote: »

Well that's sorted then. We just had a vote with a big, probably the biggest, issue being immigration, so the best next PM is the person who had responsibility for immigration for 6 years and has not only been unable to fulfill 2 manifesto promises to bring it down but has overseen record levels while cutting border control staff.

It's a pretty damning indictment of UK politics.

lvader

talexuser wrote: »

Well that's sorted then. We just had a vote with a big, probably the biggest, issue being immigration, so the best next PM is the person who had responsibility for immigration for 6 years and has not only been unable to fulfill 2 manifesto promises to bring it down but has overseen record levels while cutting border control staff.

I thought the argument was that is isn't possible to control immigration rather that the government was doing a poor job of doing it. Governments have immigration targets, I'm not sure they constitute manifesto promises though. On the other side of the coin the government set some economic targets that on the whole were met largely as a result of having high immigration.

talexuser

lvader wrote: »

I thought the argument was that is isn't possible to control immigration

... not the impression I was getting from either the manifesto or the leave campaign. However in economic terms you're probably right.

savings_my_hobby

talexuser wrote: »

Well that's sorted then. We just had a vote with a big, probably the biggest, issue being immigration, so the best next PM is the person who had responsibility for immigration for 6 years and has not only been unable to fulfill 2 manifesto promises to bring it down but has overseen record levels while cutting border control staff.

Paradoxically she bemoaned mass immigration in last years Tory conference.

Then supported remain and campaigned far less than Corbyn, It's a funny old world.

I was backing may to succeed Cameron before all of that, although I still think she is the best person out of the two to lead us into Brexit.

Thrugelmir

talexuser wrote: »

Well that's sorted then. We just had a vote with a big, probably the biggest, issue being immigration, so the best next PM is the person who had responsibility for immigration for 6 years and has not only been unable to fulfill 2 manifesto promises to bring it down but has overseen record levels while cutting border control staff.

The EU has the ultimate say and therefore responsibility.

savings_my_hobby

talexuser wrote: »

... not the impression I was getting from either the manifesto or the leave campaign. However in economic terms you're probably right.

I am unconvinced by the positive EU immigration economic argument.

If you are a low skilled EU migrant earning NLW and claiming your tax back via tax credits which they are entitled, then using public services, GP's, Hospitals, Schools etc. Possibly needing an interpreter because you are not fluent and potentially claiming Child tax credits for a child in their home country I fail to see the economic benefit. Not when there are British people on the dole who have been educated at the expense of the tax payer and really should be contributing back into the system.

I suppose you could say EU migrants work hard for a company which makes profit and pays tax but what if that company is one of the known tax avoiders legally paying minimum tax or for a heavily subsidised farmer.

you could say they use our shops? what if they shop at one of the many European shops springing up, strangely I have never seen a Brit working in one of these shops.

Don't get me started on the multitude of uninsured, unlicensed or drunk drivers clogging up the courts section of the local paper.

Then look at the other impact they have on low wage depression and high rents due to supply and demand, after all if the property available for rent was left unoccupied for a few months I would expect to see the price come down and down until someone occupies it. My area is now 33% Eastern European, this has had a huge effect on the cost of rent.

I think the figure is £30k, you have to earn £30k a year to be a net contributor to the economy, I wonder what percentage of EU migrants would earn this amount. A few no doubt but nowhere near all. At least now we can match skills required to our economic needs.

Don't get me wrong some are extremely hard working and very pleasant to talk to but we have to put this into context, who would not be extremely hard working for 2.5-5 times their annual salary?
Where on planet Earth can we go and work a low skilled job for that kind of wage increase.

if you work in a factory for three years for NLW what can you achieve? they can save enough for a tidy deposit in their home nation.
when people say "they do the jobs Brits won't" I say which jobs? the fruit and veg was not rotting in the fields before 2004.