If we vote to Remain what happens?

Moby

CLAPTON wrote: »

so you are in denial about the Soviet Union, Yugoslavia,
the other vile communist states, the labour party, The IRA three (Corbyn, McDonnell, Abbott) etc

which bit of history are you pinning your hopes on?

Ummm....let me think probably the bit which resulted in 28 parliamentary democracies coming together to end war and remove the fascists in Portugal, Spain and Greece and the communists in Eastern Europe. What do your shower have to offer in future... a pipe dream and a wing and a prayer?

Totally agree with you about Yugoslavia....can't understand why you equate me or Corbyn with Soviet communism. That's your own bigoted McCarthyite view of the world imo.......nothing to do with me.

Generali

Moby wrote: »

Ummm....let me think the bit which resulted in 28 parliamentary democracies coming together to end war and remove the fascists in Portugal, Spain and Greece and the communists in Eastern Europe. What do your shower have to offer in future... a pipe dream and a wing and a prayer?

I think that one of the really positive things the EU did was to help the ex-Communist countries overcome decades of repression and economic stagnation.

Moby wrote: »

Totally agree with you about Yugoslavia....can't understand why you equate me or Corbyn with Soviet communism. That's your own bigoted McCarthyite view of the world imo.......nothing to do with me.

Mr Corbyn employed Seamus Milne, an apologist for the USSR and general wing nut, as Executive Director of Strategy and Communications. And his Shadow Chancellor quotes from Mao's Little Red Book.

If a Tory Chancellor quoted Mein Kampf or a senior Spin Doctor was writing about how great Pinochet was then I think you would probably soil yourself with excitement. Mrs Moby would be getting a bit of action that night.

The Labour leadership is a bunch of dangerous extremists that should be mocked roundly and often.

CLAPTON

Moby wrote: »

Ummm....let me think probably the bit which resulted in 28 parliamentary democracies coming together to end war and remove the fascists in Portugal, Spain and Greece and the communists in Eastern Europe. What do your shower have to offer in future... a pipe dream and a wing and a prayer?

Totally agree with you about Yugoslavia....can't understand why you equate me or Corbyn with Soviet communism. That's your own bigoted McCarthyite view of the world imo.......nothing to do with me.

I agree that trade is a good way on cementing friendly relations between nations although it's sad that the EU has historically rejected free trade with non white, non christian nations especially the poor developing ones.

Better to support increasing trade with ALL the nations of the world even if they don't meet your recipe. Possibly why Corbyn was always in favour of leaving the EU although he has now dropped nearly all of his former 'principles'.

I certainly missed the bit where EU28 removed the fascists in Spain and Portugal :
I seem to recall the dictators of Spain and Portugal dying in their beds and the people choosing democracy: Greece's dictators were toppled by the Turkish army invading Cyprus but do feel free to provide an alternative narrative (presumably where Corbyn single handedly smashed the fascists).
I recall no EU involvement at all.

Corbyn, McDonnell, Abbott are long term supporters of the IRA killers and apologists for the Soviet Empire and the vast Mao killing fields. And of course they are now deadly silent on the monstrous Venezuela socialist disaster.

You choose to walk in their shoes without any help from McCarthy (was he a well known EU personality?)

We can offer a democratic system where the people of the UK can change their government and their laws;
trade with all the nations of the world on an equal footing,
freedom for young people in London and the SE to live in a family sized property,
improvements in health care, transport, infrastructure
and still to be able to preserve the beautiful quiet places of the UK.

I'm optimistic that in the long term the racist hatred of some Scots and some Welsh will decline but that may be a long time coming.

Moby

Mc Carthy was a US senator who used false accusations to malign good people. Watch the movie 'Trumbo' and Im sure you'll be familiar with elements of it. I'm not suprised you missed the history I described because as always your history selectively disregards events that does not fit in with your bigoted view of the world. The EU is a bastion of stability and democracy in an unstable world and the future you describe is a puerile childish pipe dream bearing no relationship to reality and lacking any back up from any creditable agency or person of standing. You talk about what brexit offers young people....I think most young people will see through what your 'dog whistle' politics offers. They will largely vote for remain because they tend to be genuinely 'one world' in view and are not hiding a nasty bigotry under a thin veneer of false internationalist posturing.

Moby

Generali wrote: »

Mr Corbyn employed Seamus Milne, an apologist for the USSR and general wing nut, as Executive Director of Strategy and Communications. And his Shadow Chancellor quotes from Mao's Little Red Book.

As I've said I'm not a Corbyn fan but this characterisation is a smear and bears no relationship to reality imo. Did you notice that David Cameron was happy to stand on the same platform as Sadiq the other day by the way!

If a Tory Chancellor quoted Mein Kampf or a senior Spin Doctor was writing about how great Pinochet was then I think you would probably soil yourself with excitement. Mrs Moby would be getting a bit of action that night.

Not a good comparison imo....Hitler was beyond the pale.....many good people have been marxists!

The Labour leadership is a bunch of dangerous extremists that should be mocked roundly and often.

Thats a bit extreme and a bit Clapton esque:rotfl: I agree he's unelectable though....but that's because he's not a good leader....many of his views are actually quite popular in the UK.

CLAPTON

Moby wrote: »

Mc Carthy was a US senator who used false accusations to malign good people. Watch the movie 'Trumbo' and Im sure you'll be familiar with elements of it. I'm not suprised you missed the history I described because as always your history selectively disregards events that does not fit in with your bigoted view of the world. The EU is a bastion of stability and democracy in an unstable world and the future you describe is a puerile childish pipe dream bearing no relationship to reality and lacking any back up from any creditable agency or person of standing. You talk about what brexit offers young people....I think most young people will see through what your 'dog whistle' politics offers. They will largely vote for remain because they tend to be genuinely 'one world' in view and are not hiding a nasty bigotry under a thin veneer of false internationalist posturing.

So, no references to as to how the EU brought democracy to Greece, Spain and Portugal?

No quotes from Corbyn, McDonnell, Abbott condemning the IRA bombings in Birmingham, Brighton, Warrington etc?
and no quotes condemning the vile President of Venezuela?

No acknowledgement that USA, Australia, NZ, etc are bastions of stablility and democracy in an unstable world.

No personal apology for your racist views of the English?

Oh dear : well you choose to walk in the footsteps of these people : that's your choice.

After a 36-year rule, Franco died in 1975. He restored the monarchy before his death, which made King Juan Carlos I his successor, who led the Spanish transition to democracy. After a referendum, a new constitution was adopted, which transformed Spain into a parliamentary democracy under a constitutional monarchy.

The Greek military junta of 1967–74, commonly known as the Regime of the Colonels (Greek: καθεστώς των Συνταγματαρχών, kathest!s ton Syntagmatarch!n, [kaθesˈtos ˈton sinˈtaɣ.matarˈxon]), or in Greece simply The Junta (/ˈdʒʌntə/ or /ˈhʊntə/; Greek: Χούντα, [ˈxunda]), The Dictatorship (Η Δικτατορία, I Diktator!a) and The Seven Years (Η Επταετία, I eptaet!a), was a series of right-wing military juntas that ruled Greece following the 1967 Greek coup d'!tat led by a group of colonels on 21 April 1967. The dictatorship ended on 24 July 1974 under the pressure of the Turkish invasion of Cyprus.

Finally in 1926 the army took power. In 1928 Antonio de Oliveira Salazar, a lecturer at Coimbra University, was made finance minister. In 1932 Salazar became prime minister. He drew up a new constitution, which was accepted in a referendum. Salazar became a virtual dictator. A secret police force, the PIDE (Policia Internacional e de Defensa do Estado) was formed. The press was censored and political parties were banned.

Salazar spent money on public works such as roads, bridges and public buildings. Portuguese industry grew steadily and the urban population rose. However poverty remained widespread.

Furthermore in the early 1960s guerrilla warfare began in Portugal's African colonies. Fighting the rebels proved a great strain on Portugal's resources.

In 1968 Salazar was forced to resign through ill health. He was replaced by Marcelo Caetano.

Meanwhile increasing discontent in the army led officers to form the Movimento das Forcas Armadas (MFA). On 25 April 1974 the army staged a coup. People wore red and white carnations to show their support for the revolution. So it became known as the Carnation Revolution. Democracy was restored in Portugal.

No acknowledgement that USA, Australia, NZ, etc are bastions of stablility and democracy in an unstable world.

michaels

Moby wrote: »

Not a good comparison imo....Hitler was beyond the pale.....many good people have been marxists!

Hitler was beyond the pail but Stalin, Mao and Polpot weren't?

Moby

michaels wrote: »

Hitler was beyond the pail but Stalin, Mao and Polpot weren't?

The above were warped individuals. Marxism is a political philosophy. Two different things.

Moby

CLAPTON wrote: »

So, no references to as to how the EU brought democracy to Greece, Spain and Portugal?

Its common knowledge you blert.

No quotes from Corbyn, McDonnell, Abbott condemning the IRA bombings in Birmingham, Brighton, Warrington etc?
and no quotes condemning the vile President of Venezuela?

You'll have to ask them yourself mate nothing to do with me!

No acknowledgement that USA, Australia, NZ, etc are bastions of stablility and democracy in an unstable world.

Your point is?

No personal apology for your racist views of the English?

Get a life you sad jarg. Troll!

Oh dear : well you choose to walk in the footsteps of these people : that's your choice.

McCarthyite troll. Go back to your Trump videos:rotfl:


You are the one who should apologise Clapton. You are a bigot who trolls these threads day after day with your bitter nasty views. You have nothing to offer but fear of the 'other' and your 'dog whistle' obsession with immigration. I see right through you.

mwpt

vivatifosi wrote: »

Have people done the Sky quiz?

https://eurometer.news.sky.com/

DH and I have taken it and it seems quite accurate. We will probably cancel each other out. I am a Utilitarian apparently.

I got Cosmopolitan. Not at all surprised given that I've lived in several countries and don't "do" nationalism. In fact, I regard it as slightly backward and in some cases dangerous.