Marriage Crisis

skattykatty

OP, when things are calmer are you both able to discuss what is going on? Are you both able to say how the others' behaviour/words are impacting you? Does your wife acknowledge that her behaviour is unhelpful/unhealthy/abusive? Do you discuss if this is how you both wish to continue or not? Do you consider, together, the impact on your child? The birth sounds like it was traumatic, for both of you. Like others have said, she may be suffering from PTSD/post-natal depression.

If she recognises that there has been a massive change in behaviour since the birth of the baby, then she may be able to get herself to the GP. The fact that she is a CBT therapist is neither here nor there. We are all, whatever we do, vulnerable to these difficulties and we are all entitled to help.

In terms of your safety and wellbeing, and that of your daughter, you need to think carefully about the armour you are putting up in the face of her emotional abuse and what it costs you AND YOUR CHILD. The experience of an abusive childhood can blur boundaries. Take some time out by yourself to really consider where your boundaries lie. What you are prepared to put up with. What you are not prepared to put up with. Act on these. It doesn't mean you do not love your wife, it does mean that you respect yourself.

As you know, counselling/therapy can only help if the client seeks it him/herself. Perhaps it is something you can look into for yourself. It may help you clarify what your next move will be. Consider: are you, at the moment, bringing up your daughter in a healthy (physically, emotionally, psychologically) environment? If yes, as you were. If no, what can you do to improve things?

missbiggles1

coolcait wrote: »

Verbal abuse, emotional abuse, financial abuse, psychological abuse and other forms of abuse which do not involve 'being knocked about' are all examples of genuine domestic violence.

Whatever disagreements you may have about other aspects of posts on this thread, it's important to be clear that the definition of 'domestic violence' includes far more than just physical violence.

wannabe_sybil, and others have also explained that point with some eloquence.

They're examples of domestic abuse certainly but, unless we accept a redefinition of the word "violence" (which would put us on very dangerous ground) then they aren't.

It's important not to fall into the trap of believing the sort of male propaganda that has arisen on this subject over recent years, most of which has involved manipulating language and statistics and has been driven by anti feminist sentiment.

Guest101

missbiggles1 wrote: »

They're examples of domestic abuse certainly but, unless we accept a redefinition of the word "violence" (which would put us on very dangerous ground) then they aren't.

It's important not to fall into the trap of believing the sort of male propaganda that has arisen on this subject over recent years, most of which has involved manipulating language and statistics and has been driven by anti feminist sentiment.

Have you bothered to look up violence at all? I'll explain: you have a definition of violence that's personal to you, which is great, that is what you base your opinions on. But there is also a legal definition.

Nothing needs to be redefined.

As for your second paragraph, I'm confused.

Are you duggestibg men cannot be victims of domestic violence?
Or are you suggesting that categories, such as emotional, financial and psychological abuse, should be ignored?

This perceived anti feminist sentiment has come out of left field, because as far as I'm aware women are much more likely to suffer, certainly, financial abuse than men.

Guest101

missbiggles1 wrote: »

I think many of the women on here may have experience of genuine domestic violence, not the expanded definition of it that men have introduced so that they can claim to be equal victims.

So what's genuine and what's fake? I'm curious and don't want to presume I know what you mean

calicocat

Guest101 wrote: »

There's a good chance her job would be gone if this came out. Which may be preventing her from being open about it.


Giving her a choice is a mistake in my opinion. It gives her time to prepare, where you will end up as the abuser.

I get the feeling that you may not like it, but I would doubt very much that this woman would lose her job because of this at all. Do you have any idea how many women experience trauma or Pnd, go completely of the rails, and still hold jobs down when well again within the NHS....or any other profession for that matter. ??

She is likely to be wary of getting help...as would lots of women working in any field. She is also equally likely to not be thinking straight and doesn't recognise that she is as unwell as she actually is.

OP, your wife needs help as she doesn't sound like she is coping emotionally. If she is reluctant to seek help herself, go and see her GP yourself and explain how things are for her and see what can be done . It may end up where interventions without her ok are needed...it may not.

A friend of mine had similar emotions/mind-set after a baby, it wasn't recognised early enough and she ended up in a couple of Psychiatric units for months.

Guest101 isn't going to like this, but she works for the NHS, still has her job, and is now a manager.

I work for the NHS and see numerous women with PND and trauma from birth, these can be people working within the NHS Guest101, and many other walks of life.


Don't think this is going to go away OP, she needs someone to talk to/help, maybe medicinal help, and maybe more intensive intervention if that isn't of help.

missbiggles1

Guest101 wrote: »

Have you bothered to look up violence at all? I'll explain: you have a definition of violence that's personal to you, which is great, that is what you base your opinions on. But there is also a legal definition.

Nothing needs to be redefined.

As for your second paragraph, I'm confused.

Are you duggestibg men cannot be victims of domestic violence?
Or are you suggesting that categories, such as emotional, financial and psychological abuse, should be ignored?

This perceived anti feminist sentiment has come out of left field, because as far as I'm aware women are much more likely to suffer, certainly, financial abuse than men.

And that, for me, says all I need to know about discussing the issue with you..

missbiggles1

Guest101 wrote: »

So what's genuine and what's fake? I'm curious and don't want to presume I know what you mean

"Genuine" as what we all mean by the word, not what it may have been redefined to mean to meet an agenda.

Angry_Bear

missbiggles1 wrote: »

It's the exact opposite IME - it's genuine domestic violence that's being trivialised by describing having a glass of water thrown over you as on a par with being knocked about.

Have you forgotten that he was punched in the face by her. In what definition is that not "genuine domestic violence"?

Person_one wrote: »

I've re-quoted my whole post, and bolded the bit that you clipped and quoted in isolation. You need the whole post really, or the meaning is different, as can be clearly seen when you read it in full.

I usually attempt to keep responses manageably by trimming out bits I don't think are relevant. As I was talking about your reaction to a man who, let's not forget, has been punched in the face by his wife - I didn't theink the rest was relevant.
However ....

Person_one wrote: »

Is it playing any role in yours, do you think?

Fully agree that Guest101 has his own agenda. Not really my business.

Violence in a relationship is always, always wrong, that goes without saying.

Yep, but you seem to be trivialising the violence described in this one. Maybe it's not what you intend, but it's how it comes across to me.

I'm going to make an assumption that the OP doesn't feel that he is in any physical danger from his wife though, presumably he is much stronger, and he has not actually been injured by her. He says that he finds her abusive language funny, and he has also admitted to being very verbally aggressive towards her.

I've already addressed the first part. From my experience with someone I know well, men can (claim to) "laugh off" insults and even violence because they feel that is what is expected of them - much as many people do with bullies even though it is damaging inside. They are often much more affected by these situations than they want to admit, your type of reaction doesn't exactly encourage them to be more frank.
As for him being verbally agressive towards her, maybe I'm wrong but "f*&^ off" and calling her a "&*^%!" is not in the same league as specific personal attacks designed to hurt and humiliate (it seems to me that even the mild "useless husband" can be more cutting than calling someone a generic &^%$" name).

Both of them are in a bit of a mess here, it sounds like both of them need some outside help.

Frankly, I can't ever imagine any here saying to a woman in the OPs situation that she was "also in a bit of a mess". And I can imagine the uproar if someone did.

Ignoring the actual violence - if you don't think her making specific personal attacks on him, particularly given his traumatic upbringing, is abuse then I'm baffled.

As I've said before, a woman writing this scenario would be seeing a very different response, and that makes me sad because I thought a lot of the posters who seem to be arguing that he should tolerate her behaviour were more balanced in their views.

gonzo127

missbiggles1 wrote: »

They're examples of domestic abuse certainly but, unless we accept a redefinition of the word "violence" (which would put us on very dangerous ground) then they aren't.

It's important not to fall into the trap of believing the sort of male propaganda that has arisen on this subject over recent years, most of which has involved manipulating language and statistics and has been driven by anti feminist sentiment.

i am only going to make this one response on this due to the last thread that included abuse by females against males causing me a lot of distress.

but i just wanted to point out that your blanket dismissive opinion of the abuse of males by females, is quite simple shocking, because just because the OP has not been beaten black and blue does not make the situation any less worrying.

i have personally suffered abuse by a women, which nearly caused me to kill myself, and i am still battling with the effects of this 20 years after it happened, not only this but my uncle recently killed himself due to the abuse he suffered at the hands of his wife. so dismissing abuse just because someone isnt beaten black and blue just shows how narrow a view you have on this subject.

so lets look at the stats, so there are roughly 2-3 deaths per week by domestic violence against woman, so roughly 150 deaths a year.

but since abuse has such major consequences i believe we should consider more than just direct death/murder, so why not look at suicide rates as well, so in 2013 there were 4,858 male suicides registered in the UK and 1,375 female suicides registered.

now this is going to be estimates because there are no hard facts behind this as you cant ask a dead person why they did it, but a lot of the research points to abuse, harassment and bullying being a significant factor in people committing suicide.

what is significant is obviously objective, but say if we took just 10% of all suicides having abuse as the cause you would get

459 male suicides due to abuse and 138 female suicides due to abuse even adding the 150 ish direct domestic abuse deaths to the female total will give under 300 a year

abuse is about more than just direct physical violence.

this is not about anti-feminism, but trying to look at the whole problem of abuse and its effects, your own dismissive language about the abuse of male by females, in my mind, puts you close to being on par with abusers themselves, because you are not only turning a blind eye to the problem, but you are actually actively encouraging people to believe there isn't a problem, this will give some of the people who commit abuse the feeling of support or justification, because direct physical violence is 'more' serious, and as they not not committing direct physical violence they are 'fine', just because females are less like to physically attack a man, does not mean the abuse that is committed is any less serious.

so lets just try and turn the sexes around in this situation and think about what your advice and comments would be if it was a woman asking for help, if it would be different, why would it be? just remember

the op has already been physically assaulted already (punched in the face)

has regular attacks about their appearance

has their abusive childhood brought up and used as a weapon against them

is blamed for everything going wrong

gets told they are useless

has had a second physical attack with the water - yes i know you will state it isn't as serious, but with the history of having already been punched in the face, surely its not too big of a stretch to imagine that could have gone a lot further

and now the op is afraid to try and show affection to their partner.

so just a few items that has been said to have happened, and i would put money on there being a lot more things like those which the OP hasnt mentioned, so once again, had the sexes of the parties been reversed what would your opinion have been? and if its different, why?

Guest101

calicocat wrote: »

I get the feeling that you may not like it, but I would doubt very much that this woman would lose her job because of this at all. Do you have any idea how many women experience trauma or Pnd, go completely of the rails, and still hold jobs down when well again within the NHS....or any other profession for that matter. ?? - Not PND , but a conviction for assault or anything similar would immediately raise safeguarding concerns.

She is likely to be wary of getting help...as would lots of women working in any field. She is also equally likely to not be thinking straight and doesn't recognise that she is as unwell as she actually is. - I agree with this, the point about the job was an additional, rather than sole reason

OP, your wife needs help as she doesn't sound like she is coping emotionally. If she is reluctant to seek help herself, go and see her GP yourself and explain how things are for her and see what can be done . It may end up where interventions without her ok are needed...it may not. - Agreed.

A friend of mine had similar emotions/mind-set after a baby, it wasn't recognised early enough and she ended up in a couple of Psychiatric units for months.

Guest101 isn't going to like this, but she works for the NHS, still has her job, and is now a manager. - I don't have an issue with that. Someone needed help and they got it. By acknowledging the problem and resolving it, the NHS got to keep (presumably) a good employee. But abusing a spouse and hiding it, could eventually lead to the criminal route being taken.

I work for the NHS and see numerous women with PND and trauma from birth, these can be people working within the NHS Guest101, and many other walks of life. - I work for the NHS too Occy Health can help people all the time.


Don't think this is going to go away OP, she needs someone to talk to/help, maybe medicinal help, and maybe more intensive intervention if that isn't of help.

Agreed, she needs help, but the OP and his child need to be safe too.