Penalty fare - first time ever!!!

wealdroam

andygb wrote: »

I actually offered to pay the fare in my original letter to them, but they chose not to answer that or any of the other points which I made.
I am afraid that if I pay the penalty fare, they will somehow manage to get out of refunding it to me, and I just think that would be akin to robbery.

As you have not yet bought a ticket, you are in a very weak position.

That's another very good reason for paying the penalty fare at the earliest opportunity.

If you had now paid the penalty fare, there would be no argument that the fare for your journey has been paid. By still not paying the penalty fare you are continuing to refuse to pay the fare for the journey travelled.

Do what others, including Transport Focus, have advised you to do and do it now.

magyar

wealdroam wrote: »

As you have not yet bought a ticket, you are in a very weak position.

That's another very good reason for paying the penalty fare at the earliest opportunity.

If you had now paid the penalty fare, there would be no argument that the fare for your journey has been paid. By still not paying the penalty fare you are continuing to refuse to pay the fare for the journey travelled.

Do what others, including Transport Focus, have advised you to do and do it now.

Sorry I do disagree with that. The OP said he has offered in writing to pay the fare. Therefore his position is not at all weakened.

andygb

I should add, that at the time the penalty fare notice was issued, the revenue inspectors said nothing at all about me then having to buy a ticket.
As this is the first penalty fare notice I have ever received, I assumed that it would be £20 plus the fare, which it clearly is not.
I should reiterate, that the first thing I did when I reached the barriers, is what I have done on other occasions (when station staff are there), to ask to buy a ticket.

wealdroam

magyar wrote: »

Sorry I do disagree with that. The OP said he has offered in writing to pay the fare. Therefore his position is not at all weakened.

Something needs to be paid very soon.

I cannot understand why the OP didn't enclose a cheque for the fare with his first letter. That to me, shows much more of a willingness to pay.

London50

In the end you have only as I see it two choices either pay or not, if you choose not to pay you could end up in court and could fight your case that way but if you loose in the court then the cost will be far higher than it is now.
I am not saying that from what you have posted you did anything wrong but like so many large companies bullying tactics {right or wrong} seem to hold sway over the "small person" and on the whole seem to win more times than they loose.

magyar

wealdroam wrote: »

Something needs to be paid very soon.

I cannot understand why the OP didn't enclose a cheque for the fare with his first letter. That to me, shows much more of a willingness to pay.

I agree with you there: that would have been a preferable course of action, but stating in writing you are *prepared* to pay is legally and morally no different.

It has to be remembered, that on the facts provided there is NO CASE WHATSOEVER that a penalty fare should have been issued. The OP alighted at a station where no ticket machine or working permit to travel machine was available.

He tried at the time to pay the fare, and has said in writing he's happy to pay the correct fare.

He was incorrectly issued a penalty fare. Why should he pay it?

Manxman_in_exile

So you still haven't bought a ticket for the original journey and you also refused to pay a penalty fare. I know you subsequently "offered" to pay the fare, but what you probably should have done is included payment by cheque when you wrote to the train company. That might have been the end of it.


I understand that you feel you've done nothing wrong, but you will appreciate that the train companies are faced with similar situations to yours all the time, where they are dealing with (unlike you) intentional fare dodgers. They really are protecting their revenue and trying to keep fares down. By still not having paid the fare for the journey you made (I presume you agree that you still owe this) you may not be helping yourself.


As I posted before, I think you should have accepted the penalty fare at the time and then appealed against it. If you were afraid that they wouldn't accept your appeal after payment, why should they accept it before?


Having refused the penalty fare you should have paid (not "offered to pay") for the journey at the earliest opportunity.


I'm not saying you won't succeed, just that you may have put yourself in a weaker position than you needed to.

magyar

There's not much benefit in saying 'here's what you should have done' at this point.

Don't forget he has already appealed and had it rejected, although I am not clear if that appeal was to the TOC or to the independent appeal body.

Where I disagree with you is that his actions have him in a weaker position: in law, sending a cheque would be no different to putting in writing that you agree to pay - absolutely none.

andygb

Manxman_in_exile wrote: »

Having refused the penalty fare you should have paid (not "offered to pay") for the journey at the earliest opportunity.

Unfortunately, you have not bothered to read all the posts.

I offered to pay as soon as I reached the station of my destination (and fully explained why I was not able to purchase a ticket sooner) - but that offer was declined by the "enforcement officer" and he issued a penalty fare.

How did I "refuse" the penalty fare, when I have been issued with one?
I am disputing the penalty fare which was issued to me.

Please keep up - you need to concentrate more;)

yorkie2

Manxman_in_exile wrote: »

So you still haven't bought a ticket for the original journey and you also refused to pay a penalty fare....

The train company appears to be refusing payment of the correct fare...