The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

Shakethedisease

Tromking wrote: »

Anyone see the hapless SNP fella on QT last night left floundering when whilst in full 'grievance mode' he was asked why if he had a problem with the state pension didn't the SNP use the powers at Holyrood to change things?
Priceless.

Boring more like. Tories mess the bed and the Scottish Govt ( of whatever party ) have to keep clearing it up ? Nope.

And in actual fact, I think a lot of people have become complacent about the current SNP Govt clearing up messes other Parliaments create ie the bedroom tax, housing benefits for young people etc never getting any credit for it, and having people like you keep insisting they should clean up ever bigger messes like pensions and triple locks.

The next two years of cold hard Tory policies and Brexit realities should be left to take it's course in Scotland imo. Should concentrate a few minds.

Mistermeaner

You mean the completely fair and reasonable practice of allocating scarce resources for those reliant on the state for housing according to need?

Thrugelmir

Shakethedisease wrote: »

The next two years of cold hard Tory policies and Brexit realities should be left to take it's course in Scotland imo. Should concentrate a few minds.

Just as with the end of Gordon Brown's era. The lack of a coherent alternative strategy. Makes one looked like a beached whale as the tide goes out. In reality the options open to any political party are very constrained. Far from the black and white you suggest to be the case.

Shakethedisease

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Just as with the end of Gordon Brown's era. The lack of a coherent alternative strategy. Makes one looked like a beached whale as the tide goes out. In reality the options open to any political party are very constrained. Far from the black and white you suggest to be the case.

Oh it's never black and white. Independence is a process, not a single event. The tide has been going in and out since the first devolution referendum in 1979, but each time the tide has come back in it's gotten further up the beach and the waves are getting closer together.

Is only been three years since an independence vote, and already the next one is only thing Scottish politics is about now to the exclusion of all else. Where the other parties used to dismiss it even as a prospect, now it's the only thing they care about stopping.

There's real tangible fear and desperation behind every single leaflet drop, press release and breathless reporting of the latest indy tiny % shift. Peaks and troughs..but the whole process is accelerating, and has been for a long time now. There's no other outcome possible with so many in Scotland having already left the idea and principles behind the very existence of the UK behind ( think Brexit ) and no new UK advocates coming on board.

The Labour party in actual fact was the only politics in common holding the UK together. Sooner or later with them gone, and probably sooner, Scotland will leave Westminster too. There's little point when any other flavour of MP's Scotland sends other than Labour are simply frozen out.

IveSeenTheLight

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Cameron delivered on his promise. He went to the EU to renegotiate for different terms. Then held allowed a referendum to be held. Being an honourable man he accepted the result. Despite the fact he was in disagreement. Then walked the plank. Unlike other recent politicians he leaves with respect. Whatever ones personal view of him.

I think differently.

I respected him as the PM, however to be a great leader, he should have delivered the result the electorate voted for.

He did not do that, and for me, was poor leadership.

Mistermeaner

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Oh it's never black and white. Independence is a process, not a single event. The tide has been going in and out since the first devolution referendum in 1979, but each time the tide has come back in it's gotten further up the beach and the waves are getting closer together.

Is only been three years since an independence vote, and already the next one is only thing Scottish politics is about now to the exclusion of all else. Where the other parties used to dismiss it even as a prospect, now it's the only thing they care about stopping.

There's real tangible fear and desperation behind every single leaflet drop, press release and breathless reporting of the latest indy tiny % shift. Peaks and troughs..but the whole process is accelerating, and has been for a long time now. There's no other outcome possible with so many in Scotland having already left the idea and principles behind the very existence of the UK behind ( think Brexit ) and no new UK advocates coming on board.

The Labour party in actual fact was the only politics in common holding the UK together. Sooner or later with them gone, and probably sooner, Scotland will leave Westminster too. There's little point when any other flavour of MP's Scotland sends other than Labour are simply frozen out.

Bingo!

Scottish politics has become completely one issue - to the exclusion of really important stuff like running the region of Scotland

The insistence on pushing the independence thing that has a lot of support but not the majority has divided the country and ergo its politics

The real business of actually running the place is forgotten while time and money is wasted endlessly debating this single issue which does nothing for the people

There is no logic to independence, no benefit to it - at all. However the snp exploit poorly informed nationalism to maintain a raison detre

Naturally anyone who wants to challenge them for power in Scotland needs to appeal to the other ~50% of population so therefore stands against independence and the down ward spiral continues

The thing that keeps me personally interested in the scottish thing is that I never cease to be amazed by how stupid the general population can be and how easy it is to persuade masses of people to do something that isn't in their interest on the basis of perceived tribal belonging

I heard a debate on the radio the other day; st Helen's (not far from me) is apparently to be absorbed into either Liverpool or Manchester City council - its roughly between the two in physical geography

The population of st Helen's is apparently divided as half consider themselves scousers and half consider themselves Mancs . There are calls for a referendum to decide

Community divided along tribal lines with no logical reason debating on the wrong terms what is a decision about efficient administration of some public affairs

Ridiculous

To me the scottish debate is even worse than St. Helens as arguably it wong actually make a jot of material difference to st Helen's who they end up with

There can however be no doubt that an I Scotland will be an economic car crash that will have real negative consequences for its population- anyone who claims different is an idiot

Perhaps the snp are actually really clever and by maintaining this constant threat of independence they improve scotlands lot by keeping the Barnett money flowing and ensuring Westminster Kow tow to certain demands.... maybe the goal isn't to actually get independence but to maintain a grievance culture to (I) keep power (Ii) keep prominence on the uk scale

Without this Scotland would just be another region of the uk ; geographically large but economically and population wise much smaller and less significant than say Yorkshire or greater Manchester

mollycat

Mistermeaner wrote: »

Bingo!

Scottish politics has become completely one issue - to the exclusion of really important stuff like running the region of Scotland

The insistence on pushing the independence thing that has a lot of support but not the majority has divided the country and ergo its politics

The real business of actually running the place is forgotten while time and money is wasted endlessly debating this single issue which does nothing for the people

There is no logic to independence, no benefit to it - at all. However the snp exploit poorly informed nationalism to maintain a raison detre

Naturally anyone who wants to challenge them for power in Scotland needs to appeal to the other ~50% of population so therefore stands against independence and the down ward spiral continues

The thing that keeps me personally interested in the scottish thing is that I never cease to be amazed by how stupid the general population can be and how easy it is to persuade masses of people to do something that isn't in their interest on the basis of perceived tribal belonging

I heard a debate on the radio the other day; st Helen's (not far from me) is apparently to be absorbed into either Liverpool or Manchester City council - its roughly between the two in physical geography

The population of st Helen's is apparently divided as half consider themselves scousers and half consider themselves Mancs . There are calls for a referendum to decide

Community divided along tribal lines with no logical reason debating on the wrong terms what is a decision about efficient administration of some public affairs

Ridiculous

To me the scottish debate is even worse than St. Helens as arguably it wong actually make a jot of material difference to st Helen's who they end up with

There can however be no doubt that an I Scotland will be an economic car crash that will have real negative consequences for its population- anyone who claims different is an idiot

Perhaps the snp are actually really clever and by maintaining this constant threat of independence they improve scotlands lot by keeping the Barnett money flowing and ensuring Westminster Kow tow to certain demands.... maybe the goal isn't to actually get independence but to maintain a grievance culture to (I) keep power (Ii) keep prominence on the uk scale

Without this Scotland would just be another region of the uk ; geographically large but economically and population wise much smaller and less significant than say Yorkshire or greater Manchester

Great post

Enterprise_1701C

I have to say I utterly agree with you Mistermeaner.

I have often thought that the SNP would have the biggest shock of their lives if they actually gained independence and found themselves having to actually run the country with no-one to pick up the pieces.

That is why, if they ever get another "once in a generation" referendum, I want it to be set in stone that if they leave they do not get the option to rejoin, at least not for 100 years or more.

.string.

Yes, good post Mistermeaner.

I don't go along with your last sentence though because I don't see the need to downplay the value of Scotland in the Union. Scotland may need subsidies at present but that will hopefully change with time and different policies.

The need for different Scottish policies is illustrated by the cynical remark made just now by Shakey:

Shakethedisease wrote: »

... The next two years of cold hard Tory policies and Brexit realities should be left to take it's course in Scotland imo. Should concentrate a few minds.

This typifies the approach of the SNP, neglecting to use the considerable devolved powers of Scotland to improve the lot of Scots, preferring instead to let things slide and blame the results of their own inaction on the vile Tories. If Scotland needs more of this or that which is the UK "baseline" plus, of course, the barnet extension, by all means have it, but pay for it.

Your post validly points out the continuing obsession they have with independence and I see they have now laid themselves open to that charge in their approach to the GE. A tactucal error methinks because it should galvanise Scottish voters who do not like their destructive obsession to vote, which is necessary to counter the high turn out one can expect by the ifinatics.

elantan

Take a look at @KatieKhaleesi's Tweet: https://twitter.com/KatieKhaleesi/status/858248537951358976?s=09


Of course it's always the yes side that are nasty ... I blame the SNPPPPPPP