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The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

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The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

15.4K replies 152.9K views
ShakethediseaseShakethedisease Forumite
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For everything Scotland related. Economics, politics, oil prices, GERS, new powers etc etc.

I know some of you will just be [STRIKE]groaning in abject horror[/STRIKE] just as excited as I am about the prospect of another Scotland specific thread. So here it is.

I've been on these boards for a while know, and there always seems to have been a looooooong running Scotland thread going on in some form. It makes sense to keep things all in the one place. And provides people with no interest whatsoever in anything Scotland related ample opportunity to scroll past should they wish. ;)

This thread is unlikely to last quite as long as the others as most of them covered the lead up to the referendum, then the lead up and aftermath of last years General Election. However, with a Scottish General election now only weeks away, the recent GERS report, a possible Brexit, new manifestos from all Scottish parties due detailing how they will use new income tax and welfare powers, oil prices remaining low, and the recent announcement from the SNP that they will start to build a new case for independence starting this summer. There is still plenty to debate for a wee while for anyone interested.

The last thread is here :- http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5148575&page=500

With the last post from Mistermeaner
Yes referendum is history; arguments on here are about the next steps for scotland and the fact that you shakey and leanne still support independence - financial case is IMO even worse for scotland for now that at time of referendum so why would you still support independence?

I asked you each to provide brief details on 5 key points of scotlands finances so as you could justify some of your vision and perhaps help me understand things from your point of view but all 3 of you declined to do so, instead deflecting the issue.

The only conclusion that I can draw from this is that my existing view that scotlands would be fooked financially is correct (as per the facts and figures referenced by other posters e.g. Gen)

Clearly you want independence no matter what the financial cost to scotland I assume either because you (i) dont care or (ii) are ignorant as to the consequences of this financial mess.

As each of you refer to scotland being 'better' as an independent nation I assume some element of that better must be related to the social and welfare policies of your vision for iscotland?.... all things that must be paid for

I am therefore completely at a loss as to your reasoning and justification for iscotland.

Saying things such as "noone knows the details" is just ignorant - there is plenty of information from which you can draw very reasonable assumptions. Why not use the available information to provide a brief vision of iscotland on the basis of the 5 key points of national finances and how they will be different from today:

- Barnett (block grant)
- Share of UK debt
- Taxation (up/down/the same)
- Expenditure (up/down/the same)
- Borrowing
It all seems so stupid it makes me want to give up.
But why should I give up, when it all seems so stupid ?
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Replies

  • princeofpoundsprinceofpounds Forumite
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    I have to say I will miss the slightly surreal title of the old thread.
  • ShakethediseaseShakethedisease Forumite
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    The only conclusion that I can draw from this is that my existing view that scotlands would be fooked financially is correct (as per the facts and figures referenced by other posters e.g. Gen)

    Clearly you want independence no matter what the financial cost to scotland I assume either because you (i) dont care or (ii) are ignorant as to the consequences of this financial mess.

    As each of you refer to scotland being 'better' as an independent nation I assume some element of that better must be related to the social and welfare policies of your vision for iscotland?.... all things that must be paid for

    I am therefore completely at a loss as to your reasoning and justification for iscotland.

    I guess all countries have ups, downs and challenges independent ( as let's face it most are ) or not. Perhaps the thing you should be asking is who is best placed to deal with these challenges. 307 Years in the UK has apparently left Scotland a complete basket case. There is an argument to be made that staying in the UK will only serve to ensure Scotland remains a *basket case. Only by leaving will there be opportunities, once the immediate shock of breaking away has been gotten over, to change Scotland's basket case status.

    You and others seem to be stuck on and endless loop at the 'immediate shock' stage and cannot see past it.

    *am paraphrasing others.
    It all seems so stupid it makes me want to give up.
    But why should I give up, when it all seems so stupid ?
  • edited 18 March 2016 at 8:33PM
    ShakethediseaseShakethedisease Forumite
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    edited 18 March 2016 at 8:33PM
    I have to say I will miss the slightly surreal title of the old thread.

    Me too. Mabye I should edit... Oh, I'm not sure if you can here actually.

    edit - Found it.
    It all seems so stupid it makes me want to give up.
    But why should I give up, when it all seems so stupid ?
  • MistermeanerMistermeaner Forumite
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    Lets kick this new thread off with a no dodge explanation of the post independence vision for say years 1-5 on the 5 key points..... go on.... indulge me:


    - Barnett (block grant)
    - Share of UK debt
    - Taxation (up/down/the same)
    - Expenditure (up/down/the same)
    - Borrowing
    Left is never right but I always am.
  • ShakethediseaseShakethedisease Forumite
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    Lets kick this new thread off with a no dodge explanation of the post independence vision for say years 1-5 on the 5 key points..... go on.... indulge me:


    - Barnett (block grant)
    - Share of UK debt
    - Taxation (up/down/the same)
    - Expenditure (up/down/the same)
    - Borrowing

    Nah, lets do that later. Let's start with something a little more contemporary and cheery first. If politics is 90% trust Westminster have some ground to make up no ? So do you have a five point plan for that ? ;)
    Public trust in the Scottish Government to act in the country’s best interests has enjoyed a post-referendum “bounce”, it emerged today. But faith in the UK Government to do the best for Scotland has slumped.

    Almost three-quarters (73%) of Scots now believe ministers in Edinburgh act it he country’s long-term interest, according to the latest Scottish Social attitudes survey for 2015.

    This is up from 59% in 2013 and the highest level of trust among Scots since the onset of devolution in 1999. Such a “bounce” effect has only been seen previously in election years, the survey published today says.

    It adds: “The level of trust recorded in 2015 was particularly striking given that 2015 was not a Scottish election year although the Scottish independence referendum took place in September 2014.”

    The level of trust in the Scottish Government to make fair decisions stands at 49%, the highest since devolution.

    But fewer than a quarter (23%) of Scots say they believe the UK Government acts in the country’s best interests - down from 26% in 2013.
    http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/public-trust-in-snp-government-soars-1-4074792
    It all seems so stupid it makes me want to give up.
    But why should I give up, when it all seems so stupid ?



      • Award for the most over earnest, dogmatic, smug virtue signaller of the year goes to - Tasmina Sheikh





    • MistermeanerMistermeaner Forumite
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      we knows lots of scots don't like westminster.

      What we are not clear on is how iscotlands finances will (inyour opinion) work
      Left is never right but I always am.
    • edited 18 March 2016 at 5:20PM
      michaelsmichaels Forumite
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      edited 18 March 2016 at 5:20PM
      Surely acting in Scotland's best interest is to keep agitating for indepenence thus winning a much larger than fair share of UK govt spending as a bribe to stay with no real intention of ever going it alone and losing all that largesse. Anyone seriously want to claim this is not the true SNP policy?
      I think....
    • TromkingTromking Forumite
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      Nah, lets do that later. Let's start with something a little more contemporary and cheery first. If politics is 90% trust Westminster have some ground to make up no ? So do you have a five point plan for that ? ;)

      http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/public-trust-in-snp-government-soars-1-4074792

      Nothing to worry about there if you`re a Unionist. High approval ratings for Scottish politicians spending the Westminster bung wisely does not an independent Scotland make. But you knew that.
      “Britain- A friend to all, beholden to none”. 🇬🇧
    • edited 18 March 2016 at 5:30PM
      HAMISH_MCTAVISHHAMISH_MCTAVISH Forumite
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      edited 18 March 2016 at 5:30PM
      Nicola on EU membership:

      10004049_1037203139672009_2859124496238995449_n.jpg?oh=426b8ced7ce609ab0004bb4a386be44c&oe=574CCA37
      “The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie – deliberate, contrived, and dishonest – but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic.

      Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.”

      -- President John F. Kennedy”
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