The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

antrobus

sss555s wrote: »

..That's £660m for every Scottish man woman and child over the last 50 years. That's £13.2m per person per year in oil and gas alone. To get the average value of that take it back 25 years and you could buy a lot for £13.2million in 1992...

Scotland is subsidised by English taxpayers to the amount of £8 billion a year. Over the last 50 years, at current prices, that is £400 bn quid.

The invoice is in the post.:)

TrickyTree83

antrobus wrote: »

Scotland is subsidised by English taxpayers to the amount of £8 billion a year. Over the last 50 years, at current prices, that is £400 bn quid.

The invoice is in the post.:)

The flow of money into Scotland goes back even further than that.

From 1888 to 1959 there was the "revenue support grant" brought in by Chancellor of the Exchequer, George Goschen MP. This distributed funds on the following basis:

80% to England & Wales
11% to Scotland
9% to Ireland

That's 71 years of proportional payments relative to the rest of the country.

Population of Scotland in 1901 4.4m
Population of UK in 1901 38.3m

Population of Scotland in 1961 = 5.2m
Population of UK in 1961 = 50m

Scotland's population growth % = 18.2%
UK population growth % = 30.5%

So Scotland received a disproportionate amount of revenue up until 1959.

North Sea Oil was discovered in 1969.

Then in 1978 the Barnett formula came into being.

A tit for tat fight is the last thing Scottish nationalists want to be drawing attention to.

I'm waiting for the suggestion to ban anyone with the surname Longshanks from entering iScotland. I suppose in response we could ban Wallace, this seems to be the intellectual level of discourse allowed in discussion about an independent Scotland.

.string.

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

That's not how the EU is funded, so how can it be double standards when there is no EU debt we have to pay? We may have signed up to support payments of EU civil servants pensions, but since we're not going to be part of that institution anymore we shouldn't be expected to continue paying. That would be like saying Scotland should continue paying NI into the UK treasury after independence to finance the pensions of HMRC and other UK departments you've been using whilst part of the UK. iScotland taking it's share of the UK debt is a completely different issue, you want the rUK to take on the accumulated debt of Scotland because?...? Trust me, you'll be having ~9% of the UK's overall debt total, you can be sure of that.

Can't say I agree that the UK has no ongoing Liability for EU pensions. The people who work there come from all member states and some of those are British, working there, or having worked there, as part of the UK's membership. Payment terms of their pension entitlement should rightly be a UK responsibility. No need to worry about future payments for UK people still working there. They will all get the sack as the result of Brexit (give or take a very few the EU might like to keep on). Same with MEPs.

I think a similar principle should apply to Scots in any future Natland with some nuances (whether they have the new Scottish nationality, where they live, where they worked etc) and to residual EU residents. It would clearly be more complicated than the EU pension issue. Ireland may provide a precedent - don't know. Even if that is not precisely a debt, it would be an inherited liability.

Incidentally, I should 'fess up that I worked in an International Organisation ( ESA - not part of the EU and thus not directly affected by Brexit) so I have a vested interest in the funding of such pensions from IOs.

Shakethedisease

kabayiri wrote: »

Is that it then?

Sturgeon writes a letter and May says she has already answered.

She might as well stick it in a drawer.

Still, we have Brexit to focus on now.

You wish.

Who do you think should have the right to decide if there should be a referendum in Scotland that would allow the people of Scotland to choose between Brexit and independence? Should it be...
The Scottish Parliament : 61%
The Westminster Parliament : 39%

Most Scots say Holyrood should decide on referendum
The Survation survey, conducted after Theresa May ruled out a referendum for at least two years, found most Scots also thought London should not be allowed to block a new vote.

Excluding don’t knows, the preference for Holyrood over Westminster was 61 to 39.

However the response was closer when the question was who should decide the timing of such a vote, with 56 per cent saying Holyrood and 44 per cent, after excluding don’t knows.

Asked if Westminster “should have the right to block a plan for a referendum in Scotland, even if it is agreed on and voted for by the Scottish Parliament”, 58 per cent said No and 42 per cent said Yes, after excluding don’t knows.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/15194049.Most_Scots_say_Holyrood_should_decide_on_referendum/

Mrs May should be very careful she hasn't overplayed her hand based on focus group opinion taken months ago. Scots voters want to see how Brexit plays out first. Sturgeon has read the electorate perfectly so far.

TrickyTree83

.string. wrote: »

Can't say I agree that the UK has no ongoing Liability for EU pensions. The people who work there come from all member states and some of those are British, working there, or having worked there, as part of the UK's membership. Payment terms of their pension entitlement should rightly be a UK responsibility. No need to worry about future payments for UK people still working there. They will all get the sack as the result of Brexit (give or take a very few the EU might like to keep on). Same with MEPs.

I think a similar principle should apply to Scots in any future Natland with some nuances (whether they have the new Scottish nationality, where they live, where they worked etc) and to residual EU residents. It would clearly be more complicated than the EU pension issue. Ireland may provide a precedent - don't know. Even if that is not precisely a debt, it would be an inherited liability.

Incidentally, I should 'fess up that I worked in an International Organisation ( ESA - not part of the EU and thus not directly affected by Brexit) so I have a vested interest in the funding of such pensions from IOs.

The funding of EU pensions from UK taxpayers after having left the EU will set a precedent for iScotland.

That would mean that not all of the current tax revenue they expect to get back will come back making the economic case for iScotland worse again. As I said before the best possible deal for the UK with the EU is the best possible scenario for an independent Scotland, but in that situation - why bother?

TrickyTree83

Shakethedisease wrote: »

You wish.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/15194049.Most_Scots_say_Holyrood_should_decide_on_referendum/

Mrs May should be very careful she hasn't overplayed her hand based on focus group opinion taken months ago. Scots voters want to see how Brexit plays out first. Sturgeon has read the electorate perfectly so far.

It's more that the nationalist cause, the pro-EU agitators and the SNP have overplayed theirs since the very notion of an independent Scotland is a disaster in waiting based on the SNP and the pro-indy/pro-EU playbook in Scotland.

It's all wrong, you want to be pushing for a good deal between the EU and the UK so it makes your argument more compelling.

sss555s

sss555s wrote: »

Just looking at the oil & gas industry which has contributed £330bn in tax for a population of 5m means that Scotland has contributed £660,000,000.00 per head from oil & gas alone.

antrobus wrote: »

Total 'Government revenues from UK oil and gas production' from between 1968/69 to 2015/16 were £189,973 million, or £190 billion. So you are wrong by around £140 bn.

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/government-revenues-from-uk-oil-and-gas-production--2

It's that kind of basic error that might lead people to think you are amongst the 'less bright'.:rotfl:

Your example isn't for all taxes and I still don't see anywhere it says your quoted figure anyway. There are loads of articles quoting my figures.

Same ole BS from the South

antrobus wrote: »

Scotland is subsidised by English taxpayers to the amount of £8 billion a year. Over the last 50 years, at current prices, that is £400 bn quid.

The invoice is in the post.:)

We have already busted that BS of the farcical figures that is laid out to the to the other nations of the UK. Read back a page or two and you may learn something.

TrickyTree83

sss555s wrote: »

Your example isn't for all taxes and I still don't see anywhere it says your quoted figure anyway. There are loads of articles quoting my figures.

Same ole BS from the South




We have already busted that BS of the farcical figures that is laid out to the to the other nations of the UK. Read back a page or two and you may learn something.

You talk crap, I just went and checked.

At it's peak the revenue for the exchequer was just over £28bn for one year, all other years are much lower and that's adjusted for prices in 2013/14.

That's without calculating in and offsetting it with the investment required to extract it.

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=7&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiIn6LLh4HTAhVMBcAKHZWAC20QFgg8MAY&url=http%3A%2F%2Fresearchbriefings.files.parliament.uk%2Fdocuments%2FSN00341%2FSN00341.pdf&usg=AFQjCNFtvjjnSG1pC28iWRpfLnaVa3epfw&sig2=3VohmzcWkFe2HKLqL9jhww

Edit: My word, you should read that document, you'll have a rude awakening as it shows how much tax is actually collected on page 33.

Where did you get your statistics from? IndyLies4U?

Rinoa

Shakethedisease wrote: »

You wish.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/15194049.Most_Scots_say_Holyrood_should_decide_on_referendum/

Mrs May should be very careful she hasn't overplayed her hand based on focus group opinion taken months ago. Scots voters want to see how Brexit plays out first. Sturgeon has read the electorate perfectly so far.

Of course, they knew what the answer would be if they asked "Should Scotland have yet another referendum on Scottish independence".

So they appealed to national pride by asking whether Scotland should be allowed to make the decision.

It's all manipulation, day after day, month after month.

Rinoa

sss555s wrote: »

It's hilarious how Scots get called by some of the less bright from South of the border.

Just looking at the oil & gas industry which has contributed £330bn in tax for a population of 5m means that Scotland has contributed £660,000,000.00 per head from oil & gas alone.

Just try that calculation again.