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The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.
Comments
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Shakethedisease wrote: »English and Welsh citizen's have to weigh it up too. I wouldn't worry too much about Scotland though I know you're really concerned. But the fact of the matter is that years of Scots hearing themselves referred to as 'Jock Scroungers' and stories of 'English largesse' might just be about to come back and bite hard. According to this guy, England doesn't have much to sell to the world anymore and Sterling might hit 80c.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/videos/2017-03-28/jim-rogers-asks-if-scotland-pushes-pound-to-0-80-video
Now I don't wish this to be the case by any means. But it really is time that folks started looking into what happens economically to what's left of the UK if Scotland leaves at the same time as exiting the EU. May has made a bit of a mistake in treating Scotland's voters ( voters ! ) as a complete irrelevance. Not when 45% of them already wanted out even before Brexit happened. Like you May thinks of the SNP as some sort of entity which got where it has as if by magic or fluke rather than the representatives of real people with real and serious power at the ballot box in Scotland. It's time to adjust those views.
Even worse. After going on for years about how Scotland cannot walk away from UK debt and obligations because creditors won't like it etc. There seems to be a real school of thought out there which thinks that the UK can do just that while leaving the EU. Double standards much ?
Wonderful.
Where's the response to the choice on trade that's going to be on offer if you get a referendum?Shakethedisease wrote: »English and Welsh citizen's have to weigh it up too. I wouldn't worry too much about Scotland though I know you're really concerned. But the fact of the matter is that years of Scots hearing themselves referred to as 'Jock Scroungers' and stories of 'English largesse' might just be about to come back and bite hard. According to this guy, England doesn't have much to sell to the world anymore and Sterling might hit 80c.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/videos/2017-03-28/jim-rogers-asks-if-scotland-pushes-pound-to-0-80-video
Listened to what he had to say.
Checked it.
He's woefully wrong. Seems he's waxing lyrical on Bloomberg without having looked into the subject.
http://atlas.media.mit.edu/en/visualize/tree_map/hs92/export/gbr/all/show/2015/
English and Welsh citizens voted as part of the UK, they accept that. It's only people like yourself who are trying to hold the rest of us over a barrel, blackmail if you will, and I'm very happy we're not going to stand for it. Either you're with us as a democratic society or you're not but you will not dictate what the UK as a whole does or does not do. I would sooner see Scotland leave the UK than have 5m people get a veto on what the cumulative remainder of the population say.
The UK gave Scotland a fair say in 2014, and a fair say in 2016 as a group. You want to disregard both of those outcomes and have the rest of the UK bend knee to Scotland and treat them as special once again. No. Being equal partners means Scottish votes are counted in exactly the same way as the rest of us, not on a country by country basis. But we've seen how the nationalists like to twist these words to suit.Shakethedisease wrote: »Now I don't wish this to be the case by any means. But it really is time that folks started looking into what happens economically to what's left of the UK if Scotland leaves at the same time as exiting the EU. May has made a bit of a mistake in treating Scotland's voters ( voters ! ) as a complete irrelevance. Not when 45% of them already wanted out even before Brexit happened. Like you May thinks of the SNP as some sort of entity which got where it has as if by magic or fluke rather than the representatives of real people with real and serious power at the ballot box in Scotland. It's time to adjust those views.
Even worse. After going on for years about how Scotland cannot walk away from UK debt and obligations because creditors won't like it etc. There seems to be a real school of thought out there which thinks that the UK can do just that while leaving the EU. Double standards much ?
Why should we think about what happens if Scotland leaves?
What would be the point in that? If you get your referendum we have absolutely no say in it whatsoever so there's little point in doing so. Let alone doing so would be tantamount to accepting this stance of blackmail and threats. Scottish voters are not treated as an irrelevance, your vote is not worth any more than mine within the UK on an issue such as the EU referendum. There just happens to be more people who agree with me. That is your problem, but you're making it Scotland's.
The SNP did get their current minority government by fluke if you ask me. 55% of the electorate is not a sufficient enough test of the will of Scots to say for certain that the proportions of representatives in Holyrood is accurate. No one can do anything about that, Scots will have to lay the blame at their own door for that.
Who are the creditors the UK has in the EU?
That's not how the EU is funded, so how can it be double standards when there is no EU debt we have to pay? We may have signed up to support payments of EU civil servants pensions, but since we're not going to be part of that institution anymore we shouldn't be expected to continue paying. That would be like saying Scotland should continue paying NI into the UK treasury after independence to finance the pensions of HMRC and other UK departments you've been using whilst part of the UK. iScotland taking it's share of the UK debt is a completely different issue, you want the rUK to take on the accumulated debt of Scotland because?...? Trust me, you'll be having ~9% of the UK's overall debt total, you can be sure of that.0 -
It's hilarious how Scots get called by some of the less bright from South of the border.
Just looking at the oil & gas industry which has contributed £330bn in tax for a population of 5m means that Scotland has contributed £660,000,000.00 per head from oil & gas alone.
That money is spent; gone; vamooshed; no longer available.
It's the same with revenues from cotton in the past; revenues from coal; revenues from slavery.
All gone.
It doesn't take a bright person to work this out :rotfl:0 -
It's hilarious how Scots get called by some of the less bright from South of the border.
Just looking at the oil & gas industry which has contributed £330bn in tax for a population of 5m means that Scotland has contributed £660,000,000.00 per head from oil & gas alone.
If we're going to get involved in tit for tat exchanges like this then you should consider how much money has flowed into Scotland as a result of being in the [STRIKE]UK[/STRIKE] Great Britain since 1707. Then we can net the two figures and see how much you owe the rest of the UK. Agree?
If you're not going to consider both aspects then perhaps some are not incorrect in positing that there's some blunt thinking going on in Scotland right now.0 -
TrickyTree83 wrote: »...
That's not how the EU is funded, so how can it be double standards when there is no EU debt we have to pay? We may have signed up to support payments of EU civil servants pensions, but since we're not going to be part of that institution anymore we shouldn't be expected to continue paying. That would be like saying Scotland should continue paying NI into the UK treasury after independence to finance the pensions of HMRC and other UK departments you've been using whilst part of the UK. iScotland taking it's share of the UK debt is a completely different issue, you want the rUK to take on the accumulated debt of Scotland because?...? Trust me, you'll be having ~9% of the UK's overall debt total, you can be sure of that.
You are of course right.
Different unions; different problems.
iScotland could trade the Shetland and Orkney isles for that debt though, and the oil fields with it.0 -
You are of course right.
Different unions; different problems.
iScotland could trade the Shetland and Orkney isles for that debt though, and the oil fields with it.
I don't even think they could do that.
The Northern Isles would remain part of the UK and the population proportion of debt they have would also remain part of the UK.
iScotland would still have ~8% of the UK debt but without substantial areas of oil and gas.
Simply trading the Northern Isles for no debt is a great deal for iScotland and a poor deal for the rUK.0 -
TrickyTree83 wrote: »I don't even think they could do that.
The Northern Isles would remain part of the UK and the population proportion of debt they have would also remain part of the UK.
iScotland would still have ~8% of the UK debt but without substantial areas of oil and gas.
Simply trading the Northern Isles for no debt is a great deal for iScotland and a poor deal for the rUK.
Shucks. You've persuaded me.
Well, is there anything else of value?
What about Hogwartz? Is that up in Scotland?
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TrickyTree83 wrote: »It wouldn't surprise me to see that make an appearance in the SNP's economic plan to be honest.
Pretty sure she's depending on some sort of magic. And she is desperate for it to happen before the next general election.What is this life if, full of care, we have no time to stand and stare0 -
That money is spent; gone; vamooshed; no longer available.
It's the same with revenues from cotton in the past; revenues from coal; revenues from slavery.
All gone.
It doesn't take a bright person to work this out :rotfl:
Yep all gone in the Westminster coffers.
That's £660m for every Scottish man woman and child over the last 50 years. That's £13.2m per person per year in oil and gas alone. To get the average value of that take it back 25 years and you could buy a lot for £13.2million in 1992.
We may be past the peak but there is still a massive amount left and it is still a massive industry in the medium term.
Westminster isn't the answer for Scotland and we need to manage our own affairs.0 -
It's hilarious how Scots get called by some of the less bright from South of the border....
You only have yourself to blame for that.:)...Just looking at the oil & gas industry which has contributed £330bn in tax for a population of 5m means that Scotland has contributed £660,000,000.00 per head from oil & gas alone.
Total 'Government revenues from UK oil and gas production' from between 1968/69 to 2015/16 were £189,973 million, or £190 billion. So you are wrong by around £140 bn.
https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/government-revenues-from-uk-oil-and-gas-production--2
It's that kind of basic error that might lead people to think you are amongst the 'less bright'.:rotfl:0
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