The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

A_Medium_Size_Jock

Not all the polls are going the way the SNP would like; in a recent poll:

Support for staying part of the United Kingdom stands at 70% among the over 60s, with 30% backing independence, the Survation poll for the Sunday Post newspaper found.

https://www.eveningexpress.co.uk/pipe/news/scotland/older-voters-would-vote-no-in-second-scottish-independence-referendum/

A poll of pensioners from last March for the same newspaper showed 64.4% backed No and 35.6% backed Yes.

Shakethedisease

A_Medium_Size_Jock wrote: »

Not all the polls are going the way the SNP would like; in a recent poll:
https://www.eveningexpress.co.uk/pipe/news/scotland/older-voters-would-vote-no-in-second-scottish-independence-referendum/

Has always been the case for the over 60's in polling regarding independence. Likely to be the prime target for any second unionist campaign ( as it was for the first ) regarding pensions.

Let's be hoping Brexit doesn't cause any major ructions on that front because any Yes campaign next time round will be well wise to the pensions angle and is likely to be putting in vast efforts in coming up with a credible strategy to counter it.

This article today was an interesting read on general attitudes on the ground right now in Scotland ( especially for you Tricky ).

The mood elsewhere on Main Street was unequivocally in favour of a re-run of the independence referendum, especially among younger voters. The most potent factor is hostility towards the Conservative government at Westminster, in particular May – though the Tory leader in Scotland Ruth Davidson, is, by comparison, relatively popular – and, given the state of the Labour party, the prospect of the Conservatives being returned again in 2020.

But Brexit is the recurring theme. Scots voted 62% in favour of remaining in the European Union. Rebecca, a 24-year-old administrator, voted a “definite No” to independence last time, in part because of fears about being excluded from the EU. She thinks she would vote Yes this time “because I would not be living in the EU anyway” and an independent Scotland offers the prospect of staying in the EU.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/mar/12/scotland-second-referendum-brexit-could-it-backfire

cogito

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Has always been the case for the over 60's in polling regarding independence. Likely to be the prime target for any second unionist campaign ( as it was for the first ) regarding pensions.

Let's be hoping Brexit doesn't cause any major ructions on that front because any Yes campaign next time round will be well wise to the pensions angle and is likely to be putting in vast efforts in coming up with a credible strategy to counter it.

This article today was an interesting read on general attitudes on the ground right now in Scotland ( especially for you Tricky ).

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/mar/12/scotland-second-referendum-brexit-could-it-backfire

It's hardly surprising that there is hostility towards the Tories amongst young Scots in view of the unremitting bile spewed into their impressionable minds by SNP leaders. If there was a Labour government it would be exactly the same. Young Scots would do well to reflect that if their elders are in favour of the Union, there are very good reasons why.

Shakethedisease

cogito wrote: »

It's hardly surprising that there is hostility towards the Tories amongst young Scots in view of the unremitting bile spewed into their impressionable minds by SNP leaders. If there was a Labour government it would be exactly the same. Young Scots would do well to reflect that if their elders are in favour of the Union, there are very good reasons why.

No the SNP only had 6 MP's up until May 2015, it was mainly Scottish Labour MP's that did the unremitting bile against the Tories for decades unfortunately ( for unionists ).

Older people depend more on traditional media outlets for their information. You see it here to an extent with rants against Twitter like it's something to be ashamed of using it. When in reality social media is how a lot of people gain bang up to date and more importantly opposing/balanced views on any one particular subject. Many in the older generation will still be under the impression that Salmond never did answer that question from Nick Robinson. The rest of us watched Salmond speaking to Robinson for a full 7 minutes. This is what happens when your flow of information is confined to one or two traditional media outlets.

As I said though, pensions is the clincher. And am sure there are many in all age groups who are reflecting on this on the run up to a second vote, in order to run a more successful campaign next time.

A_Medium_Size_Jock

Ah yes, talking of Labour here is what Alex Rowley says:

"What is the SNP's proposition? What they are arguing for is to take those powers out of Whitehall, out of Westminster but not give them back to Edinburgh but to give them a bunch of bureaucrats across in Brussels."

https://stv.tv/news/politics/1382812-snp-want-to-hand-powers-to-a-bunch-of-eu-bureaucrats/

Try explaining to the Scottish public if you can that he's not right, and why.

A_Medium_Size_Jock

Shakethedisease wrote: »

This article today was an interesting read on general attitudes on the ground right now in Scotland ( especially for you Tricky ).

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/mar/12/scotland-second-referendum-brexit-could-it-backfire

Indeed it does.
Some excerpts from that link:

Marie Penman, a lecturer at Fife College, won a Fife council seat for the SNP in a byelection in Kirkcaldy in 2015. She worries about the prospect of a second referendum, wondering whether uncertainty and nervousness created by Brexit and Trump will make people too afraid to make the leap.
“You know, I have really mixed feelings about this, because I 100% believe Scotland should be an independent country but I do not think they should call it unless there is strong support that says they can win it,” Penman said.
“If they lose it, that is it dead in the water. That is it finished. It would never happen again in our lifetime,” she said.

There are some SNP MPs and members of the Scottish parliament, especially younger ones, who do not see a need to rush into another referendum. They can see why Salmond, who is 62, might be impatient but feel they can afford to wait until 2025 or 2030 or even later. Why not, they say, wait until there is a clear 10-point lead in favour of independence in the polls over six months or a year?

There are divides within the SNP on Europe, with a bloc opposed to the EU. Figures such as the former deputy leader Jim Sillars said he would not vote for independence if it was tied to Scotland being in the EU. Another SNP eurosceptic, Alex Neil, a former minister and SNP member of the Scottish parliament, wrote in an article for Holyrood magazine that if Scotland was to be a full member of the EU with England outside, that would make it difficult to retain an open border. That prospect would, he said, play badly in an independence referendum.

Still not anywhere near as clear-cut as some would have us believe then.
I have said before that I believe another indyref anytime soon is unlikely and nothing I have been told changes that opinion.
If anything in fact it reinforces it.

TrickyTree83

Shakethedisease wrote: »

No the SNP only had 6 MP's up until May 2015, it was mainly Scottish Labour MP's that did the unremitting bile against the Tories for decades unfortunately ( for unionists ).

Older people depend more on traditional media outlets for their information. You see it here to an extent with rants against Twitter like it's something to be ashamed of using it. When in reality social media is how a lot of people gain bang up to date and more importantly opposing/balanced views on any one particular subject. Many in the older generation will still be under the impression that Salmond never did answer that question from Nick Robinson. The rest of us watched Salmond speaking to Robinson for a full 7 minutes. This is what happens when your flow of information is confined to one or two traditional media outlets.

As I said though, pensions is the clincher. And am sure there are many in all age groups who are reflecting on this on the run up to a second vote, in order to run a more successful campaign next time.

The accountable media then rather than the teflon lie machines such as WoS and Wee Ginger Dug. This is not a rerun of Brexit, that 24 administrator can jog on if she thinks her particularly unskilled work will be protected by becoming independent and rejoining the EU. That's the worst of the two options even with a trade deal in place. She may lose her job, fail to pay her mortgage and lose her home. But hey, she wants to be in the EU. Makes sense....

Thrugelmir

Seems as if Scotland is facing challenges ahead.

Pharmaceutical giant Johnson & Johnson has announced plans to close its surgical suture manufacturing plant in Livingston, threatening about 400 jobs.

If the plant closure goes ahead, production will shift to much bigger sites in Texas, Brazil and Mexico, the company said.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-39219810

Get a move on with that referendum. Before the window of opportunity passes.

Shakethedisease

A_Medium_Size_Jock wrote: »

Ah yes, talking of Labour here is what Alex Rowley says:

https://stv.tv/news/politics/1382812-snp-want-to-hand-powers-to-a-bunch-of-eu-bureaucrats/

Try explaining to the Scottish public if you can that he's not right, and why.

Rowley and Findlay in Scottish Labour are die hard Corbynites and Leave voters. Forget about the SNP handing back powers to anyone, the point the SNP are making is that the Tories are preparing for a Holyrood power grab. Rewriting the Scotland Act to suit themselves to do so.

There are some in Scottish Labour and Scottish Lib Dems who need to wake up and smell the reality. These powers either go to from the EU to Holyrood, or the Tories at Westminster. Rowley et all can't see past the SNP. He and those like him are in for a rude awakening in the next year when it finally and painfully dawns on them all their current posturing has been for the benefit of the Conservative party at Westminster. Meanwhile Scottish Labour sinks into single digits off the back of it. Because even if Rowley and Findlay can't see past their own SNP/EU distaste, the rest of us in Scotland can see it fine and well.

These powers are either for EU/Holyrood or for Westminster/Tories. Rowley wants to hand them gift wrapped to the Tories. And he can try explaining THAT to the Scottish public instead.

Shakethedisease

A_Medium_Size_Jock wrote: »

Indeed it does.
Some excerpts from that link:

Still not anywhere near as clear-cut as some would have us believe then.
I have said before that I believe another indyref anytime soon is unlikely and nothing I have been told changes that opinion.
If anything in fact it reinforces it.

It's only going to be clear cut when Brexit has begun. I guess you have your opinion on a second ref, and I have mine. But I think Sturgeon has been consistent so far. She is unlikely to announce a second referendum at the conference next week however, as there she is the leader of the SNP not speaking as First Minister. Journo's are speculating and hyping something which won't happen imo.

Any announcement on a second ref will come from Bute House.