The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

Shakethedisease

kabayiri wrote: »

At least Salmond had a bit of warmth and charisma.

I don't know anyone down here who has time for Sturgeon.

She's in prime position to be painted up to be the villain of the piece.

Let's wait and see, shall we.

I think there could be a return of English nationalism, it just needs something to ignite it.

I think you're a bit behind the curve. It's been pretty obvious for a while there's been a rise in English nationalism, nothing wrong in that as long as it's not the violent kind. We're probably entering the last days of the Union now as it's ties and common politics are fraying at an accelerating rate.

The suggestion that May will 'allow' another referendum but only after the UK leaves the EU is one many Scots won't trust. Not from the Tory party and certainly not after what's recently happened with Vows/Smith Commissions and Sewell conventions. None of which have lived up to what was promised at the time of their making. Sturgeon would be a prize idiot to believe in any further promises made around constitutional issues and further votes at some vague point 'in the future'.

Simply put because there would be nothing at all to stop the Tory party backtracking at a later date and nowhere for the Scottish Govt to go if they did. Nor to stop Westminster pulling extensive powers back after the UK has left the EU weakening Holyrood.

Rinoa

Shakethedisease wrote: »

I think you're a bit behind the curve. It's been pretty obvious for a while there's been a rise in English nationalism, nothing wrong in that as long as it's not the violent kind. We're probably entering the last days of the Union now as it's ties and common politics are fraying at an accelerating rate.

The suggestion that May will 'allow' another referendum but only after the UK leaves the EU is one many Scots won't trust. Not from the Tory party and certainly not after what's recently happened with Vows/Smith Commissions and Sewell conventions. None of which have lived up to what was promised at the time of their making. Sturgeon would be a prize idiot to believe in any further promises made around constitutional issues and further votes at some vague point 'in the future'.

Simply put because there would be nothing at all to stop the Tory party backtracking at a later date and nowhere for the Scottish Govt to go if they did. Nor to stop Westminster pulling extensive powers back after the UK has left the EU weakening Holyrood.

Maybe Theresa could happily agree to your indy ref in 2018.

And just to help acclimatize Scottish citizens for life after independence she could allow you to keep all taxes raised in Scotland for 12 months leading up to the vote, whilst stopping all payments under Barnett.

Thrugelmir

Shakethedisease wrote: »

I think you're a bit behind the curve. It's been pretty obvious for a while there's been a rise in English nationalism,

Do you believe that Ireland should reunited?

zagubov

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Do you believe that Ireland should reunited?

Does Ireland want that?

Thrugelmir

zagubov wrote: »

Does Ireland want that?

That's not the question I'm asking.

kabayiri

This whole independence debate is back to front anyway.

The one component in the entire UK which is out of kilter with the rest of the Union is clearly London (and perhaps parts of the SE).

It is this which should be independent from the rest.

You could argue that the rest of the country rely too much on London, and they need to find their own way.

zagubov

kabayiri wrote: »

This whole independence debate is back to front anyway.

The one component in the entire UK which is out of kilter with the rest of the Union is clearly London (and perhaps parts of the SE).

It is this which should be independent from the rest.

You could argue that the rest of the country rely too much on London, and they need to find their own way.

Well it seems the only bit of England that wanted and got devolution. The economy here always seems to be overheated while it's too cool in the rest of the UK. I definitely agree that investment and power need to be spread more evenly around the island. The UK needs its Barcelona, Munich, New York, Toronto, Tel Aviv, Sydney, and the like.

The capital doesn't need to be the main centre of the economy of a country. Ask any Glaswegian.

Shakethedisease

kabayiri wrote: »

This whole independence debate is back to front anyway.

The one component in the entire UK which is out of kilter with the rest of the Union is clearly London (and perhaps parts of the SE).

It is this which should be independent from the rest.

You could argue that the rest of the country rely too much on London, and they need to find their own way.

I think there's a problem with the presentation of these sorts of arguments in general. Because when counted as a 'region' of the UK compared with other regions Scotland is doing relatively well. When counted as a country against the rest of the UK.. London/England figures as a whole skew and slant it. Needless to say there's usually only the latter presented.

An offer of a second referendum at May's behest and timing isn't going to be trusted due to backtracking already done since 2014 and Scotland's voters wishes mostly discounted up until now re Brexit. The EU are watching the polls and narratives just like everyone else is so it's also a false argument to say that waiting until after Brexit to have a vote won't influence the negotiations. Because if it even looks vaguely like becoming a reality it certainly will over the next year or so.

It's time to get used to the fact that there's a 50/50 chance going forward that England and Wales will be doing the whole Brexit on their own. NI/Ireland is going to be in great turmoil over it in the coming few years. Scotland may leave and the constant rhetoric of Scots being subsidy junkies might be about the backfire. You alluded to it yourself with the rise of English nationalism. Many can't wait to wave Scotland off, just like the EU.

Shakethedisease

About time this vileness was highlighted. Some like myself had been resigned to the fact things like this are only ever attributed to one side of the debate. In reality there's always been a small fringe of total nutters on both sides. Neither Sturgeon, nor Salmond when he was the target, ever refer or respond to it.

Police investigating horrific catalogue of threats and abuse against Nicola Sturgeon

WARNING: THE FOLLOWING REPORT CONTAINS DETAILS READERS WILL FIND OFFENSIVE AND DISTURBING

POLICE are investigating a catalogue of horrific online abuse against Nicola Sturgeon, including death threats, threats of violence and extremely offensive and sexualised insults. Extreme threats against the First Minister are so common that there is even an account on Twitter highlighting at least 150 tweets featuring threats and hate speech directed at Sturgeon.

In their original posts a significant number of the online trolls said they wanted to violently or sexually assault Sturgeon, while there were others who said that they hoped the First Minister would die a brutal death.

However, some of the most disturbing verbal attacks focused on the miscarriage Sturgeon suffered in early 2011, when she was health secretary in Alex Salmond’s government.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/15150383.Police_investigating_horrific_catalogue_of_threats_and_abuse_against_Nicola_Sturgeon/

Mortgagefreeman

I'm afraid I've never been able to take her seriously. Looks and talks like Jimmy Krankie.