The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

elantan

Big exam went fine thanks for asking .... have u been looking me up ? Oh my I will get all shy .. no need to inform me about projection though I have studied psychology amongst many other things ... but if it makes u feel better

However I will leave the personal insults to yourself you manage them so very well

elantan

mollycat wrote: »

And aren't some people rubbing their hands in glee at this^^^

Champing at the bit for the opportunity to vent their hate, grudge, and offence at their fellow Scots; none of it with any justification.

And you people regard yourselves as patriotic?

Pathetic.

See this sounds as if your awfy angry to me ... maybe your not but you do sound it ... this was what I was referring to

Or are you just projecting I wonder

So I spose it was really you that started it

But hey let's move on and cheer up ... Scotland is looking towards a great future

mollycat

elantan wrote: »

Big exam went fine thanks for asking .... have u been looking me up ? Oh my I will get all shy .. no need to inform me about projection though I have studied psychology amongst many other things ... but if it makes u feel better

However I will leave the personal insults to yourself you manage them so very well

Are you serious?!

You were going on about studying for your "big exam" several pages ago.

Moving on......:)

elantan

I apologise ... I didn't read back several pages and know I put it elsewhere on mse ... this isn't the only thread I contribute to ... I forget exactly where I write everything

mollycat

elantan wrote: »

I apologise ... I didn't read back several pages and know I put it elsewhere on mse ... this isn't the only thread I contribute to ... I forget exactly where I write everything

Apology accepted; no big deal

Shakethedisease

davomcdave wrote: »

Some of my best friends are English!

Scotland historically did vote Conservative. In the 50s they were getting a 50% share and in the 60s they were getting a third. Are you seriously trying to suggest that Scots reject free markets and individual freedoms in favour of the jackboot and nanny-statism? One of the great things about both Ruth Davidson and Theresa May is that they give a powerful voice to modern Conservative ideology.

I thought this was a particularly good piece:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/02/17/ruth-davidson-gay-working-class-bull-riding-outspoken-scotand/

(paywall)

Loving your fantasy Conservative party in 1950's Scotland scenario. The Conservative party didn't exist in Scotland in the 1950's.

The modern Scottish Conservative Party was established in 1965 with the merger of the Unionist Party into the Conservative Party of England and Wales.

And the Union in Unionist Party was referring to Ireland.

The origins of the Scottish Unionist Party lie in the 1886 split of the British Liberal Party with the emergence of the Liberal Unionists under Joseph Chamberlain. The 'Union' in question was the 1800 Irish Union, not that of 1707.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unionist_Party_(Scotland)

So no, Tories weren't getting votes in Scotland in the 1950s. The Unionist party were. Some members had even broken off to form another party earlier...

This seam in the Scottish Unionist Party's belief system was demonstrated when members of the party left to establish the Scottish Party, which eventually merged with the National Party of Scotland to form the Scottish National Party. It also explains what may at first seem a paradoxical statement by John Buchan, who as a Scottish Unionist MP stated, "I believe every Scotsman should be a Scottish nationalist." [2]

While the Scottish party may have been linked on a Parliamentary level with the Conservative and Unionist Party in England and Wales, it was conscious that it had to appeal to the liberal tradition in Scotland and studiously avoided using the term "Conservative".[1]

Enjoy the history lesson. Oh and the fact that Ruth Davidson also studiously avoids using the term 'Conservative' at election time. There's a recurring theme in there for you somewhere.

cogito

Splitting hairs. Unionist MPs in Scotland took the Conservative whip just as their counterparts in Ulster used to do. If you look at election results pre-1965, you will see that Scottish Unionist MPs were even counted as conservatives.

Enjoy the history lesson.

antrobus

Shakethedisease wrote: »

..And the Union in Unionist Party was referring to Ireland.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unionist_Party_(Scotland) ...

And your cited source clearly states;

After the official 1912 merger of Liberal Unionists and Conservatives in Britain as the 'Conservative and Unionist Party', the Scottish Unionist Party emerged as effectively the Conservative Party in Scotland

You should have taken the time to read it. Then you would have received a 'history lesson'.

I am getting more and more convinced that you must be a unionist troll.:rotfl:








So no, Tories weren't getting votes in Scotland in the 1950s. The Unionist party were. Some members had even broken off to form another party earlier...

Enjoy the history lesson. Oh and the fact that Ruth Davidson also studiously avoids using the term 'Conservative' at election time. There's a recurring theme in there for you somewhere.[/QUOTE]

Shaka_Zulu

One thing is for sure regardless what you call the Conservative Party back in the 50s they were getting votes, whereas the SNP weren't and with a bit of luck we will return to that position in the very near future.

Shakethedisease

cogito wrote: »

Splitting hairs. Unionist MPs in Scotland took the Conservative whip just as their counterparts in Ulster used to do. If you look at election results pre-1965, you will see that Scottish Unionist MPs were even counted as conservatives.

Enjoy the history lesson.

They represented and courted votes in the Scottish central belt from Protestant voters on broadly sectarian grounds and their peak in the 1950's coincided with peak membership of the Church of Scotland/the Kirk. Also weirdly, they were also seen as representing Scottish interests from a perspective that the Labour party then were too London centric.

lest it alienate what small but wealthy middle and upper class Catholic support it had, this appeal was projected through the endorsement and promotion of well known Church of Scotland members like John Buchan, or prominent Orangemen in areas of west and central Scotland where the Orange Lodge had strong support.

Being an independent Scottish party also drew electoral appeal when set against the threat of a London-based centralising British Labour party.

Different times ( sectarian based ), very different priorities ( the Unionist Party were certainly no fans of the Labour party back then, saw them as too London based ).. but definitely no Conservative party in Scotland until 1965. Didn't exist, and it's Been over this a hundred times already in threads like these.

The decline of strictly Protestant associations, and the loss of its Protestant working-class base, spelled the erosion of the Unionist vote. Though many Conservatives would still identify with the Kirk, most members of the established Church of Scotland did not identify themselves as Conservatives.

We see elements still in the West of Scotland today from this with sectarianism. But thankfully it's a dying a death and confined to two football teams rather than religion.

No Conservative party existed in Scotland in the 1950's. The Unionist party went on to merge with the Conservative Party because their core voters were all switching to Labour. The merged party never managed to ever regain a majority of votes in Scotland from then onwards. Only ever managing around half the Labour MP's at their peak and 0 to 1 MP's from about 1997 onwards and today.

Enjoy your more in depth history lesson.