The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

.string.

mollycat wrote: »

"This is POLITICS".

Except it's not about (party) politics.

All all the hot air here about (for example), what Kezia said, what Sadiq Khan tweeted, the offence Mr Mundell caused, what opinion polls show, the state of Labour, etc,etc,etc, is redundant when talking about Independence.

It will always transcend (party) politics; because deep down most Scots don't care what Kezia et al are up to, they only know that no matter what is going on, they will be worse off in an independent Scotland.

The only people who are not able to see it, and are therefore mystefied by it are those immersed in their party political bubbles.

Yes, the SNP have discarded reality. Shakey mentioned a page or three back that Scotland had reached a deficit situation because they were part of the Union. Somehow splitting from the Union would solve that. The moment passed so I did not comment on it then but it is, on reflection after what you wrote, worth the following.

The overall Scottish deficit is not a real disadvantage for Scotland at present because it is adsorbed by the overall economics of the UK. By most accounts I think, Scotland is a nice place to live, weather and midges aside, and the living standard is good and business is doing OK give or take a bit of nervousness concerning a Neverendum. Scotland even gets a subsidy to bolster it's living standard. It can order its own culture to a huge extent, or rather to the extent that it's SNP bothers to do so.

So the "Scottish Deficit" does not impact the Scots financially. But if Scotland separated from the UK it would matter and instead of being protected by the larger bulk of the whole of the UK, the Scottish deficit would cone home to bite and bite hard. Joining the EU would not help in that respect whatever the SNP dreams of what lies at the end of the European Rainbow. No subsidy from the EU - a loan with Greek style strings maybe.

mollycat

string; you're right.

Scotland is a nice place to live, spoiled only by the "mr and mrs angrys", (still very much the minority) who agitate in the absence of any legitimate reason and cannot fathom their luck in being born British.

A complete insult to the millions of people in the world who suffer from genuine tyranny and hardship of course rather than the manufactured grudge spun by SNP, and who would cut an arm off to be here to be "ignored" by Westminster

Shakethedisease

.string. wrote: »

Next time you watch PMQ or a debate in Parliament, Shakey, if you can take time doing your cheer leader thing, take count of the number of times a contribution from the SNP is neutral, let alone constructive, compared with moaning and whingeing and dragging in no-sequiters to fuel the grievance-agenda. Normally I would guestimates it would be about 5 to 10%.

The overall tone of English politics is moving to the right. If that's what you want then fair enough. I've found some of the stuff May and other politicians say these days a bit scary if I'm honest and I don't think I'm alone in that.

If you really think that PMQ's or the HOC is the place for happy clappy, let's be a getalong gang and agree with each other all the time politics, then you are a little deluded. All political parties, moan, groan and whinge at each other. Do you see Corbyn and May on PMQs having a casual cosy chat with each other over the lecterns ? And at least the SNP take the time to actually attend. Every time I watch it, Labour and Tory seats are just about empty.

Shakethedisease

.string. wrote: »

Yes, the SNP have discarded reality. Shakey mentioned a page or three back that Scotland had reached a deficit situation because they were part of the Union. Somehow splitting from the Union would solve that. The moment passed so I did not comment on it then but it is, on reflection after what you wrote, worth the following.

Some view it that way yes. However one thing is clear after 300 odd years in the Union it's not going to be solved by staying in the same situation.

The overall Scottish deficit is not a real disadvantage for Scotland at present because it is adsorbed by the overall economics of the UK. By most accounts I think, Scotland is a nice place to live, weather and midges aside, and the living standard is good and business is doing OK give or take a bit of nervousness concerning a Neverendum. Scotland even gets a subsidy to bolster it's living standard. It can order its own culture to a huge extent, or rather to the extent that it's SNP bothers to do so.

So the "Scottish Deficit" does not impact the Scots financially. But if Scotland separated from the UK it would matter and instead of being protected by the larger bulk of the whole of the UK, the Scottish deficit would cone home to bite and bite hard. Joining the EU would not help in that respect whatever the SNP dreams of what lies at the end of the European Rainbow. No subsidy from the EU - a loan with Greek style strings maybe.

I think those higher up the chain are terrified of Scotland leaving the Union and what it would mean for an England/Wales deficit/trade deficit/the pound and GDP. Not to mention the Brexit negotiations where May is hoping to use fishing as a massive bargaining chip. Definitely worried now that it looks like Sturgeon might actually go through with it ( even though it's what she's always said she's going to do if the UK leaves the Single Market). So let's not dig too deep about subsidies.

Polls are bit on the tight side for comfort too given there's been no campaigning started as yet and the EU has been making rather too many warm welcoming noises about Scotland recently also.

mollycat

Shakethedisease wrote: »

then you are a little deluded.

100% priceless! :rotfl:

.string.

Shakethedisease wrote: »

The overall tone of English politics is moving to the right. If that's what you want then fair enough. I've found some of the stuff May and other politicians say these days a bit scary if I'm honest and I don't think I'm alone in that.

If you really think that PMQ's or the HOC is the place for happy clappy, let's be a getalong gang and agree with each other all the time politics, then you are a little deluded. All political parties, moan, groan and whinge at each other. Do you see Corbyn and May on PMQs having a casual cosy chat with each other over the lecterns ?

And at least the SNP take the time to actually attend. Every time I watch it, Labour and Tory seats are just about empty.

Since you don't live in England, you know absolutely nothing about English Politics.

That was, of course, not true, but I thought you would enjoy reading your own supercilious arguments played back.

Anyway, I don't think at all that British Politics is moving to the right. English Politics is very central with the floating voter choosing between Labour and Conservative in the past. In the future who knows, the Conservatives have become very much more socially conscious in the past decade or two and under Mrs May will move to try to take possession of the middle ground. They are having some success as you may have noted (or ignored).?£

You should not confuse Brexit with the right wing, support for that cause was spread across the political spectrum. But then your remark was just the normal attempt to tar the English with what you mean as a denigration intented to alienate the Scots from the Union. Just another bit of fakery.

Re the SNP "performances" in the Commons (and I mean "performance" quite literally), it is just a squalid grievance factory, plain for all to see.

.string.

Shakey wrote:

May is hoping to use fishing as a massive bargaining chip

You have no evidence for that. It is an SNP Fake News item aka a Lie

I see you did not understand my post on the Scottish Deficit.

It is not a problem while Scotland is in the UK, it is absurd to propose leaving the Union to solve a problem which only becomes one if you leave the Union.

.string.

On the same subject;

Greeks bridle against 'never-ending' austerity

So what's in store for Natland at the end of a Neverendum Rainbow?

Here we are in the EU State
Away from the English we loved to hate
But our sovereign debt won’t dissipate
And we ask – how now does Europe rate?

Shakethedisease

.string. wrote: »

You have no evidence for that. It is an SNP Fake News item aka a Lie

I see you did not understand my post on the Scottish Deficit.

It is not a problem while Scotland is in the UK, it is absurd to propose leaving the Union to solve a problem which only becomes one if you leave the Union.

Sturgeon will be expanding more fully on powers being repatriated from the EU tomorrow night. Also the whole tone of this article ( which appeared in the Daily Record today and then on the SNP website ) seems to be 'setting the scene'...for a second referendum.

Not only do the Tories threaten us with the leap in the dark of a hard Brexit – there is also a real danger that they will use Brexit as cover for a power grab to strip Holyrood of existing responsibilities.
The Tories have made it clear that – contrary to the promises of the EU leave campaign and to the founding principles of devolution – they see powers repatriated from Brussels, even over devolved responsibilities like farming and fishing, going to Westminster rather than Holyrood.

That’s simply not on. I’ll be saying more on this in a speech at the David Hume Institute in Edinburgh tomorrow evening. But if that is the prospect facing Scotland – an economically ruinous hard Brexit and a betrayal of the very foundations of our devolved government – then it raises fundamental questions about the kind of country we want to be and about where democratic power should lie.

https://www.snp.org/scotland_s_voice_on_brexit

Thrugelmir

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Sturgeon will be expanding more fully on powers being repatriated from the EU tomorrow night. Also the whole tone of this article ( which appeared in the Daily Record today and then on the SNP website ) seems to be 'setting the scene'...for a second referendum.

This weeks semon from the pulpit to the faithful........

Keep digging that hole ever deeper Nicola. Second guessing has a nasty habit of making one look extremely foolish.