The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

Shakethedisease

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Stop clutching at straws. Appears that May isn't playing Sturgeons game. That's the real issue for you. Anything you get get your hands on to get a fix. While everybody else sits and waits for the real battle to commence. If it ever does.......

If May wasn't playing Sturgeon's game absolutely perfectly no one would be talking about the distinct prospect of a second independence referendum looming now would they ? The Conservatives are very predictable when it comes to dealing with Scotland ( ie a minor consideration ). Always have been and Sturgeon has been able to use that predictability to her advantage very well so far after the Brexit vote.

beecher2

Sadiq Khan has now added a paragraph to his speech saying
"Now of course I'm not saying that nationalists are somehow racist or bigoted - but now, more than ever - what we don't need is more division and separation"

That sounds so much like a Scottish Labour quote added on, what a tactical disaster for them, yet again.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

Enterprise_1701C wrote: »

The vote was to LEAVE the EU, anything else was assumption, and you should not assume anything.

That's not what the leave campaigners were saying before the referendum...


"Absolutely nobody is talking about threatening our place in the Single Market"
~Daniel Hannan MEP


"Only a madman would actually leave the Market"
~Owen Paterson MP, Vote Leave backer


"Wouldn’t it be terrible if we were really like Norway and Switzerland? Really? They’re rich. They’re happy. They’re self-governing"
~Nigel Farage, Ukip leader


"Increasingly, the Norway option looks the best for the UK"
~Arron Banks, Leave.EU founder

Shakethedisease

beecher2 wrote: »

This is what he will say
https://twitter.com/SadiqKhan/status/835410362182864900



I would agree with his comments if he were referring to an extreme party which wanted Scotland to be only for those born here, but of course he is talking about Yes voters and I find his comments offensive.

Regardless of whether you agree or not though, can we not discuss the fact that this is yet another suicidal tactic by Scottish Labour? What are they trying to achieve?

1) The prospect of an independent Scotland in the EU/Single Market is more than a little bit worrying for London and Khan.

2) Scottish Labour have given up on at least 45% of voters. With these sorts of headlines they're hoping that waverers will be put off voting for or being associated with a movement they're trying to paint as racist, bigoted and divisive.

3) It also puts the SNP/Yes campaign on the defensive rather than the attack. And moves the focus from Brexit to elsewhere.

They did it all through the last ref as well and we're just going full circle again. Best ignored or laughed at for the sheer desperation tactics they are given the present set of circumstances re Brexit/immigration and Labour's last election campaign selling anti immigration mugs for a fiver.

.string.

IMHO

There is a human characteristic which relates to belong to a group where at one end it relates to cosy feelings about those who are close and at the other end aggressive hostility to those that "do not belong".

From Mother love for a child to Nazi atrocities at the other extreme.

So where does the SNP come on that line?

Wrapping things up in a professed lloyalty to Scotland --- they have pursued a policy of grievance, they continually claim unfair treatment by "Westmonster" (that insult was used a page or two back) and sow division and conflict between Scots and "the English" at virtually every utterance.

I don't see the same pattern from English Politicians.

Can the SNP be compared to Nazis? I don't think so, but they are certainly closer to the hostility end rather than the cosy end.

Are they racist? I don't think so - pedantically English is not a name of a genetic grouping, but the SNP don't want English citizens to have anything to do with their governance whereas they are happy if citizens of 27 other countries do. So not xenophobic either, just xenophobic against the English. I guess that counts as discrimination.

Shakethedisease

.string. wrote: »

IMHO

There is a human characteristic which relates to belong to a group where at one end it relates to cosy feelings about those who are close and at the other end aggressive hostility to those that "do not belong".

From Mother love for a child to Nazi atrocities at the other extreme.

So where does the SNP come on that line?

Wrapping things up in a professed lloyalty to Scotland --- they have pursued a policy of grievance, they continually claim unfair treatment by "Westmonster" (that insult was used a page or two back) and sow division and conflict between Scots and "the English" at virtually every utterance.

I don't see the same pattern from English Politicians.

Can the SNP be compared to Nazis? I don't think so, but they are certainly closer to the hostility end rather than the cosy end.

Are they racist? I don't think so - pedantically English is not a name of a genetic grouping, but the SNP don't want English citizens to have anything to do with their governance whereas they are happy if citizens of 27 other countries do. So not xenophobic either, just xenophobic against the English. I guess that counts as discrimination.

Like I said full circle. Nazi's, racist, hostility, discrimination, division, conflict, aggressive all in one post when trying vainly to analyse the SNP and the Scottish electorate.

Scottish independence is about politics. We voted No in 2014 to take powers back from Westminster and run our own affairs from Holyrood. In light of the Brexit vote this now must be reconsidered given the two conflicting results and the possible consequences ahead for Scotland. This is POLITICS.

What you're on about is nonsense on stilts. And imo, you should take a good hard and very long look with your blinkers off at what's happening in UK politics at the present time. Especially given that immigration/FOM/employee 'lists'/ have been deemed far more important an issue than even Single Market membership.. before you start throwing lines putting political parties in a spectrum of cosiness with Nazis around in casual conversation.

elantan

beecher2 wrote: »

Has Sadiq Khan lost the plot? why on earth would you portray nearly half of the Scottish electorate as being racist? I just don't understand the logic behind this - everyone will be talking about this and not Kezia's speech, while alienating the very voters who left labour post 2014 seems very illogical. The tories already have the unionist vote and KD sounded as if she wanted to go for the middle ground with federalism and appeal to yes and no voters.

Anas Sarwar seems fully supportive, as with all things Scottish labour, I suspect this is more about a power struggle behind the scenes than anything else.

That's maybe for the best to be honest ... that speech by Kez was a car crash ... the poor lassie is obsessed with the SNP

antrobus

Shakethedisease wrote: »

.. We voted No in 2014 to take powers back from Westminster and run our own affairs from Holyrood. ...

The actual question asked in 2014 was; "Should Scotland be an independent country?"

A simple yes or no response was required. The result was 'no'.

What were you saying about "nonsense on stilts".:)

.string.

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Like I said full circle. Nazi's, racist, hostility, discrimination, division, conflict, aggressive all in one post when trying vainly to analyse the SNP and the Scottish electorate.

Scottish independence is about politics. We voted No in 2014 to take powers back from Westminster and run our own affairs from Holyrood. In light of the Brexit vote this now must be reconsidered given the two conflicting results and the possible consequences ahead for Scotland. This is POLITICS.

What you're on about is nonsense on stilts. And imo, you should take a good hard and very long look with your blinkers off at what's happening in UK politics at the present time. Especially given that immigration/FOM/employee 'lists'/ have been deemed far more important an issue than even Single Market membership.. before you start throwing lines putting political parties in a spectrum of cosiness with Nazis around in casual conversation.

Next time you watch PMQ or a debate in Parliament, Shakey, if you can take time doing your cheer leader thing, take count of the number of times a contribution from the SNP is neutral, let alone constructive, compared with moaning and whingeing and dragging in no-sequiters to fuel the grievance-agenda. Normally I would guestimates it would be about 5 to 10%.

mollycat

"This is POLITICS".

Except it's not about (party) politics.

All all the hot air here about (for example), what Kezia said, what Sadiq Khan tweeted, the offence Mr Mundell caused, what opinion polls show, the state of Labour, etc,etc,etc, is redundant when talking about Independence.

It will always transcend (party) politics; because deep down most Scots don't care what Kezia et al are up to, they only know that no matter what is going on, they will be worse off in an independent Scotland.

The only people who are not able to see it, and are therefore mystefied by it are those immersed in their party political bubbles.