The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

Rinoa

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Guido Fawkes is apoplectic ranting about Sturgeons helicopter, but is unable to equate that to bus loads of activists, since she was the only one in it along with her PA and staffer or with Tory activist hotel expenses.

He certainly is.

The electoral Commission says:

“If the travel promotes both the local candidate and national policies, then a portion of the cost of that bus should be allocated towards the candidate’s spending limit and a portion towards the party’s national spending limit.”

And here's Nicola supporting her local candidate in the Jock-copter:

http://order-order.com/2016/05/23/electoral-commission-on-jock-copter-campaign/

Shakethedisease

Rinoa wrote: »

He certainly is.

The electoral Commission says:

And here's Nicola supporting her local candidate in the Jock-copter:

http://order-order.com/2016/05/23/electoral-commission-on-jock-copter-campaign/

The rest of that release refers to buses not helicopters. Then there's this.

Peter Murrell ‏@PeterMurrell 6h6 hours ago .@ElectoralCommUK confirms to me that transport costs for party leader whistlestop tours are national campaign spend under PPERA

Nicola Sturgeon wasn't even standing in that election. Just whistlestop tours in a helicopter emblazoned with 'Stronger for Scotland' and 'Vote SNP'. Guido can't provide any actual evidence to the contrary. The SNP certainly weren't busing loads of activists in either.

Be interesting if this is taken the full way. As Wishart points out, electoral spending limits are there for a reason, they're not 'optional extras'. Also, the last time an SNP MP made a complaint to the Met... It was the cash for honours scandal. Look who made the complaint.;)

In March 2006, several men nominated for life peerages by then Prime Minister Tony Blair[1] were rejected by the House of Lords Appointments Commission. It was later revealed they had loaned large amounts of money to the governing Labour Party,[2] at the suggestion of Labour fundraiser Lord Levy. Suspicion was aroused by some that the peerages were a quid pro quo for the loans. This resulted in three complaints[3] to the Metropolitan Police by Scottish National Party MP Angus MacNeil, Elfyn Llwyd (Plaid Cymru parliamentary leader), and a third individual who continues to remain unidentified, as a breach of the law against selling honours

Rinoa

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Nicola Sturgeon wasn't even standing in that election. Just whistlestop tours in a helicopter emblazoned with 'Stronger for Scotland' and 'Vote SNP'. Guido can't provide any actual evidence to the contrary. The SNP certainly weren't busing loads of activists in either.

As party leader she can fly all over Scotland to promote the SNP and inform the electorate how brilliant the SNP's policies are. That's allowed. No problem

But if she used the copter to campaign for individual SNP candidates, which is pretty evident, then the Electoral Commission says the cost must be shared between national and local spend.

And it wasn't.

wotsthat

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Hmmm I'll take all those tweets with a pinch of salt. However, if by any chance he's right I reckon Hosie's expenses might be long forgotten about by tomorrow night.

I thought the SNP were different. Given the amount of times the 'they're at it too' defence is used I'm starting to question this thought.

Generali

wotsthat wrote: »

I thought the SNP were different. Given the amount of times the 'they're at it too' defence is used I'm starting to question this thought.

This goes to the heart of one of the two reasons that the SNP will lose support over time: they are just as venal and corrupt as everyone else. See New Labour for an example of a Government starting out starry eyed and disappearing into a morass of corruption and dodgy dealing. It's just what happens over time.

Shakethedisease

Rinoa wrote: »

As party leader she can fly all over Scotland to promote the SNP and inform the electorate how brilliant the SNP's policies are. That's allowed. No problem

But if she used the copter to campaign for individual SNP candidates, which is pretty evident, then the Electoral Commission says the cost must be shared between national and local spend.

And it wasn't.

Guido hasn't come up with any evidence so far that Sturgeon was campaigning for individual candidates. He's just miffed that the Tories are being investigated both individually, and that the SNP have called HQ into question too.

I doubt Nicola is losing much sleep over her helicopter given what the Conservatives face if there's anything proved. Thanet re-run anyone ?

Shakethedisease

wotsthat wrote: »

I thought the SNP were different. Given the amount of times the 'they're at it too' defence is used I'm starting to question this thought.

The person tweeting about this story 'going nuclear' is Labour. Nothing to do with the SNP or Wishart's letter to the Met. One of the frustrations all parties have with the SNP is that they've never been able to lay a glove on Salmond, and now Sturgeon as far as any sort of dodgy dealings are concerned. Nothing has come from the Thompson or McGarry cases as yet, and Hosie was above board with his expenses.

The rest is just the usual media double standards and trial by headline in action.

Shakethedisease

Generali wrote: »

This goes to the heart of one of the two reasons that the SNP will lose support over time: they are just as venal and corrupt as everyone else. See New Labour for an example of a Government starting out starry eyed and disappearing into a morass of corruption and dodgy dealing. It's just what happens over time.

The SNP have the independence issue on their side, apart from the usual party politics. Until that happens, lots of voters will vote SNP regardless as the best vehicle to achieve it.

Also while Scottish Labour have their heads firmly stuck in the sand, there have been a lot of articles in the last week from UK Labour, mulling over 2020 and what they need to do to win back power without Scotland. Offering FFA and Home Rule 'deals' seem to be the way the wind is blowing there in return for an alliance at Westminster. Lots of talk of an English Labour party too.

Scots Labour activists are absolutely raging lol.

Facing the facts: a progressive strategy for 2020

Significantly, such a pragmatist strategy would probably mean accepting that Labour is finished in Scotland, and coming to some kind of arrangement with the SNP. Let’s be real here – there is no foreseeable way in which Scottish Labour can come back from oblivion. What has happened in Scotland is quite complicated, but easy enough to grasp. For now, most Scots don’t want independence – they want radical federalism. But they also want to be represented both in Holyrood and in Westminster by an unambiguously social democratic party. They do not trust Labour to be that party in Westminster or Holyrood, and it would be insane to expect them to look down south at the antics of the Parliamentary Labour Party and to come to any different conclusion.

There are only two ways this can go now. Either independence is coming down the track very soon; or the SNP can be persuaded, at least for the medium term, to do what most of their voters actually want, which is to park independence for the time being and to support a radical progressive government at Westminster, while administering most of their affairs from Holyrood. There is no other option on the table. Of course it would be politically impossible for the Labour leadership to admit this publicly – they can’t admit that they have given up Scotland. But Labour members and supporters would do well to accept this reality.

https://www.opendemocracy.net/uk/jeremy-gilbert/facing-facts-progressive-strategy-for-2020

To govern again, Labour must do a deal with the SNP and focus on England

Labour's new electoral reality makes an accommodation with Scottish nationalism inevitable.

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2016/05/govern-again-labour-must-do-deal-snp-and-focus-england

Generali

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Guido hasn't come up with any evidence so far that Sturgeon was campaigning for individual candidates. He's just miffed that the Tories are being investigated both individually, and that the SNP have called HQ into question too.

I doubt Nicola is losing much sleep over her helicopter given what the Conservatives face if there's anything proved. Thanet re-run anyone ?

It's alright that the SNP are venal and corrupt because the Tories are venaler and corrupter.

:T

I told you this would happen and it's just going to get worse and worse.:rotfl:

Rinoa

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Guido hasn't come up with any evidence so far that Sturgeon was campaigning for individual candidates.

Nicola flies in, meets Drew Hendry surrounded by 'Vote Drew Hendry' banners. Poses arm in arm with Drew Hendry for the cameras and Scottish TV news bulletins that night.

And you say she's not campaigning for Drew Hendry?