The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

CLAPTON

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Wind your neck in thank you. The Single Market has been an absolute consistent red line. When Theresa May hinted at leaving it at the Conservative conference things kicked up a notch. When she confirmed it a few weeks back indyref2 got kicked up several more notches.

SINGLE MARKET. If it looks like Scotland won't have full access or will be taken out of the SINGLE MARKET it doesn't matter where the polls are, indy support at 28% or 68%. Sturgeon and Patrick Harvie will take Scotland back to the polls regardless. There's no need for you or others to worry whatsoever about polls or what pro-indy commentators might be saying on the internet. The position from Sturgeon has been consistent throughout.

Soft Brexit for the UK ( stay in Single Market ) or Soft Brexit/Special deal for Scotland ( stay in Single Market ) or indyref 2 ( stay in Single Market ). Is this clear enough for you ?

The Scottish Govt won't be a part of UK/EU negotiations. So how well or not that goes is up to Theresa May and her negotiators, and vice versa re the EU. We'll have to wait and see what happens when things get going.

how does your definition of SM acccess differ from what we have at the moment : in what way is it 'leaving' the EU as per the democratic decision of the people of the UK?

elantan

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

Just in the interests of, well, accuracy....

The comments Shakey inserted, presumably from twitter, regarding a third of the 'black hole' disappearing are incorrect.

The deficit 'black hole' is referring to tax revenue - Scotland at current spending levels has a £15bn annual deficit which is unsustainable for an economy our size... Around 10% of GDP vs just 4% for rUK as a whole.

The exports of utilities to England refer to trade. Tax revenue on that trade is a fraction of the total trade and is already assumed in the statistics.

So pointing out the total value of utility exports does not in any way adjust the size of the Scottish deficit. It wasn't an own goal. And if Scotland is to have a reasonable chance of Indy and staying in the EU it seems rather important to address how we'd tackle the completely genuine deficit 'black hole' problem sooner rather than later....

Watching the masses on Twitter be ignorant as to the difference between export figures and tax revenue - or more often just outright deficit deniers - doesn't fill me with a lot of hope to be honest.

That wasn't what I was referring too ... I was talking about the twitter talk ... the idea that if WM keep up with all their rubbish we can just switch off ... it was humour floating about online ... back fired on the Scotland office... and not intended to be taken seriously at all... with quite a lot of individuals saying four candles ... I'm sure many will get the reference

norsefox

Hintza wrote: »

I've never quite understood this focus of British nationalists. Of course Nicola Sturgeon speaks for your country.

Theresa May happens to speak for mine as well, regardless of the contempt I might feel for the Conservative part, and the fact that she was not the leader of a party that won a General Election. Unfortunately for both of us, that happens to be the way that a parliamentary democracy works.

Also, the irrelevant inspection of percentages is tiring. Anyone can do this on any aspect of British elections - and if you were to do this, you'd see that the SNP's share of the Scottish electorate was rather spectacular in comparison to other parties, north and south of the border. Using your own logic, the Tories have absolutely no mandate to do anything, least of all Brexit.

Thrugelmir

norsefox wrote: »

Theresa May happens to speak for mine as well, regardless of the contempt I might feel for the Conservative part, and the fact that she was not the leader of a party that won a General Election.

Nor was Gordon Brown...........

However I value democracy over authoritarianism.

Rinoa

Esteban Gonzalez Pons, who leads Spain’s biggest MEPs group, dismissed the SNP’s position that Scotland would automatically remain in the EU if it quit the UK before Brexit.

And he repeated his previous warnings that Scotland would not be allowed to secure a stand-alone deal which would allow it to stay in the single market after Brexit as part of the UK.
The leading MEP added: “The EU has to find solutions for all their member states, not finding partial solutions. If the UK leaves the single market, then Scotland will also be outside of the single market.


He added: “If once the UK leaves, and Scotland decides to leave the UK, then you can join the queue after Montenegro, Serbia, Bosnia-Herzegovina, Turkey to join the EU.
“Rules are the rules. We cannot change the rules. We have to stick to the rules.”

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/761302/Brexit-independent-Scotland-back-of-queue-European-Union-membership-SNP

Are you listening Nicola?

Hintza

Rinoa wrote: »

Are you listening Nicola?

How can she listen? She never stops talking!

Shakethedisease

Rinoa wrote: »

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/761302/Brexit-independent-Scotland-back-of-queue-European-Union-membership-SNP

Are you listening Nicola?

No lol. Not even Spain is listening.

and not that that same Spanish MEP was slapped down by an exasperated Danuta Hübner, the president of the Constitutional Committee of the EU Parliament who made it clear to him that the rest of the parliament clearly did not share his views and that they found his tone unhelpful and disrepectful.

In one report in the Spanish press, Hübner was reported as not hesitating to picar el crost! with him, which literally means “pick the crust”, or in more idiomatic English, “have a bone to pick”. It’s clear that the Spanish MEP was being slapped down and that he was the one who came off badly in the encounter, not Fiona Hyslop.

As the headline in the Spanish paper put it, El Parlamento Europeo da un toque a Gonz!lez Pons por ir contra Escocia y Gibraltar. Da un toque is a Spanish idiom meaning to allow a phone to ring out without answering it. In this context it implies that the EU was telling Gonz!lez Pons to pay attention but he wasn’t listening. The slap down for Scotland is reported in the Unionist press, but not the slap down for the man who made the comments.

https://weegingerdug.wordpress.com/2017/01/31/mas-cambia-mas-se-vuelve-la-misma-cosa/

Fluent Spanish speakers are useful in Scottish pro indy circles.

antrobus

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Scotland's utility exports to the rest of the UK are worth £5.8 billion...

Scotland exports electricity to the rest of the UK. It's mainly wind power, which is subsidised by the UK government via the Climate Change Levy. Obviously, the rest of the UK is not going to be subsidising Scotland's wind power post independence. This hypothetical independent Scotland will have to bear the cost itself.

http://euanmearns.com/scotland-england-electricity-transfers/

Shakethedisease wrote: »

...And in one stroke, 1/3 of the independent Scotlands black hole disappears. I cannot thank the staff at the Scottish Office enough for this ....

All that means is that the person who posted that comment does not understand the difference between a fiscal deficit and a trade deficit. Unless a hypothetical independent Scotland is planning to tax these exports in some way, it has no bearing on the size of Scotland's fiscal deficit.

Shakethedisease wrote: »

:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

Yes indeed. You don't understand even the most basic of economic concepts. But then if you will rely on twitter....:)

Rinoa

Shakethedisease wrote: »

No lol. Not even Spain is listening.

https://weegingerdug.wordpress.com/2017/01/31/mas-cambia-mas-se-vuelve-la-misma-cosa/

Fluent Spanish speakers are useful in Scottish pro indy circles.

It was the tone of the Spanish MEP the EU parliament speaker objected to, not necessarily the accuracy.

As usual Wee Ginger Dougs interpretation of the links he's provided have little basis in fact.

TrickyTree83

Shakethedisease wrote: »

No lol. Not even Spain is listening.

https://weegingerdug.wordpress.com/2017/01/31/mas-cambia-mas-se-vuelve-la-misma-cosa/

Fluent Spanish speakers are useful in Scottish pro indy circles.

Except that Esteban is correct regarding how the EU membership for Scotland will likely play out, weegingerdug is not.

For Scotland to inherit, you would need to vote for and ratify independence before Brexit is ratified. It simply will not happen even if you get the referendum in 2018.

Hurdles:

1. You need to have a referendum at a time of your choosing which is legal and binding on Westminster. I personally don't believe you'll get it. It's positive for the Unionist cause to not grant this wish citing complex Brexit negotiations and a recent previous referendum alongside consistently low poll figures. It's far too easy to argue that the neither the Scottish electorate or the UK government & electorate desire a referendum on Scottish independence during Brexit negotiations.

2. You need to win the referendum if it were to take place.

3. You then need to negotiate the separation with the rUK.

4. You need to ratify the agreement prior to the UK leaving the EU, which gives you a year at most to achieve all of the above?

Pro-independence should put to bed any thoughts of inheriting EU membership, Esteban is probably correct about needing to rejoin.