The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

Shakethedisease

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Why doesn't she give the electorate an opportunity to express their views fully. Rather than interpret the results as she thinks fit.

What do you mean by that ? Interpret what ?

The UK govt has no problems whatsoever 'interpreting' a 52 to 48% result as a clear mandate to leave the EU.

The Scottish one and the First Minister therefore have no problems in interpreting a 62% to 38% result as a clear mandate that Scotland doesn't wish to leave the EU.

I can't see your point.

mollycat

Shakethedisease wrote: »

In Sturgeon's case she genuinely believes that leaving the Single Market will have catastrophic consequences on both the Scottish and the UK economy well beyond what independence would mean from rUK with both Scotland/rUK still within it.

I find that incredible to the point that it must be untrue, (so...lies or spin)

I can't believe any credible politician would believe that Scotland becoming independent would be anything other than the biggest financial calamity ever encountered; any Brexit induced recessions would be small beer by comparison.

"Hey everybody, lets have an indyref2 and vote ourselves even poorer!"

You guys are unreal :rotfl:

mrginge

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Sturgeon would rather both Scotland and rUK were in the Single Market given how intertwined the economy's are when independence occurs. But here we all are, far sooner than anyone anticipated.

Ok that was a bit of a non-answer, but to be expected I suppose.

Do you therefore agree that any negotiated SM access would be bad for any push to indyref2?

Thrugelmir

Shakethedisease wrote: »

I can't see your point.

Of course not. That wouldn't fit your agenda.

Shakethedisease

mrginge wrote: »

Ok that was a bit of a non-answer, but to be expected I suppose.

Do you therefore agree that any negotiated SM access would be bad for any push to indyref2?

A soft Brexit would always have dampened down the push to indyref 2. That was obvious to just about everyone right after the vote in June.

Indyref2 only kicked up a notch first after May's first Conservative conference speech. Then when she confirmed the UK would be leaving the Single Market it kicked up another few notches. I think the problem we all have is that so far there's a huge part of the jigsaw missing. The EU haven't contributed anything so far other than a collective line on FOM/Single Market access, so debates are all UK centric.

Shakethedisease

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Of course not. That wouldn't fit your agenda.

No, I don't actually think you had one ( a point ). We're talking about the results of a referendum which has already happened and how governments interpret the results. So far both the Scottish govt and Westminster have both interpreted the results as they were. 38/62, 52/48.

Perfectly clear and no need for any other interpretations. Why would there be ?

mrginge

Shakethedisease wrote: »

A soft Brexit would always have dampened down the push to indyref 2. That was obvious to just about everyone right after the vote in June.

Indyref2 only kicked up a notch first after May's first Conservative conference speech. Then when she confirmed the UK would be leaving the Single Market it kicked up another few notches. I think the problem we all have is that so far there's a huge part of the jigsaw missing. The EU haven't contributed anything so far other than a collective line on FOM/Single Market access, so debates are all UK centric.

God it's like pulling teeth.

What do you mean by 'kicked up a notch'?
What evidence do you actually have of that rather than just some already-Indy supporting commentators posting their same opinions all over the internet?
Have the polls moved at all?

Presumably you want your argument to be as strong as possible by autumn 2018?
Presumably that means you do not want the EU and UK to be even just looking like there might be a deal on the cards?
Presumably you think a bad (or No) deal from the EU will persuade more of the electorate to want to join the EU?

Hintza

Shakethedisease

mrginge wrote: »

God it's like pulling teeth.

What do you mean by 'kicked up a notch'?
What evidence do you actually have of that rather than just some already-Indy supporting commentators posting their same opinions all over the internet?
Have the polls moved at all?

Presumably you want your argument to be as strong as possible by autumn 2018?
Presumably that means you do not want the EU and UK to be even just looking like there might be a deal on the cards?
Presumably you think a bad (or No) deal from the EU will persuade more of the electorate to want to join the EU?

Wind your neck in thank you. The Single Market has been an absolute consistent red line. When Theresa May hinted at leaving it at the Conservative conference things kicked up a notch. When she confirmed it a few weeks back indyref2 got kicked up several more notches.

SINGLE MARKET. If it looks like Scotland won't have full access or will be taken out of the SINGLE MARKET it doesn't matter where the polls are, indy support at 28% or 68%. Sturgeon and Patrick Harvie will take Scotland back to the polls regardless. There's no need for you or others to worry whatsoever about polls or what pro-indy commentators might be saying on the internet. The position from Sturgeon has been consistent throughout.

Soft Brexit for the UK ( stay in Single Market ) or Soft Brexit/Special deal for Scotland ( stay in Single Market ) or indyref 2 ( stay in Single Market ). Is this clear enough for you ?

The Scottish Govt won't be a part of UK/EU negotiations. So how well or not that goes is up to Theresa May and her negotiators, and vice versa re the EU. We'll have to wait and see what happens when things get going.

Shakethedisease

Hintza wrote: »

Worrying times Hintza for you I know. But you've GOT to stop the Scottish Office sending out unintentional howlers like this one tonight..

Scotland's utility exports to the rest of the UK are worth £5.8 billion

:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

And in one stroke, 1/3 of the independent Scotlands black hole disappears. I cannot thank the staff at the Scottish Office enough for this

Will the last No voter leaving Brexit Britain turn the lights out.

Bright as a black-oot.