The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

Shakethedisease

CLAPTON wrote: »

is this some childish game?
you do want to be independent or not?

or aren't the scottish people ready yet.

It's too soon to go for it, too many variables. Article 50 first. The rest if recent history is anything to go by, May will provide as ample justification. We've still also to hear officially from the EU which matters too.

Timing is everything after all. Sturgeon would be wise to hold her horses and let the UK/EU negotiations commence. May's playing chicken with the EU, lets hope it doesn't backfire eh.

Shakethedisease

mrginge wrote: »

I can only conclude that Shakey thinks the Scottish electorate are stupid.

No, just Scottish Labour at the moment. Hopefully that will change soon with a change of leader. Dugdale is lost, clueless and has no idea what to do next. But her and Wullie Rennie would be the first to accuse Sturgeon of jumping the gun should she call a ref right now.

That's politics for you though. Two sides to every story, but yes Sturgeon should probably wait and see what the EU says and how things play out for a bit yet.

TrickyTree83

Shakethedisease wrote: »

It's not the boring SNP. It's the boring Scottish public.

You speak like you would have found it perfectly acceptable for the EU to tell the UK that they couldn't hold a referendum on membership without the EU's permission because it would be inconvenient for them. With respect string, just listen to yourself droning on like countries in political unions should shut up and do what they're told by the larger entity every time. Things don't work like that.

Here's the biggest and most widely read Labour leaning newspaper in Scotland for tomorrow's edition. The publishers of the Vow. Not even they think this is an... exciting time. They're livid. Let's hope a lot of their Labour voting No voting older readers get a load of this when they pick up their morning paper.

Anti-Tory the one bandwagon recently that they really can jump onto with gusto and it seems they're going to. A message that resonates loud and clear as always with the Scottish public. Most especially with traditional old school Labour voters.

Assuming the papers have their finger on the pulse, these days... that seems quite a leap.

TrickyTree83

Shakethedisease wrote: »

May needs to rule out a deal for Scotland first, Article 50 needs triggered and then things need to play out for a short time. May put out a wish list and opening stance today. It remains to be seen what the EU will counter with.

If you knew Scottish politics, and this is the only politics that concerns Sturgeon since she sits at Holyrood not Westminster, then you'd know that if she makes a move now other parties would be red in the face, all over the media, on every Scottish/UK tv news program 24/7 bleating about how she'd jumped the gun and that if she'd only waited Scotland would've/could've gotten a Scottish deal, how terrible it is that we missed out due to Sturgeon not waiting to see, how bad are the SNP for going for independence when Westminster would've/could've agreed blah blah.

Nope, this needs to play out for a bit yet. May needs to close ALL and every single one of any other options down for Scotland and Scottish voters herself. 100% close them down ( which to be fair she's doing well at so far ). And she needs to trigger Article 50 with the EU laying out their red lines too.

Until then, Sturgeon just needs to sit back for a while and watch the show like the rest of us. May will deliver the next ref or 'some kind of vote' without Sturgeon lifting a finger.

Teresa will do no such thing.

As discussed previously, if Holyrood decide to, that's fine. I'm sure my local parish could decide to hold an independence vote too. It won't make it so.

TrickyTree83

Shakethedisease wrote: »

No, just Scottish Labour at the moment. Hopefully that will change soon with a change of leader. Dugdale is lost, clueless and has no idea what to do next. But her and Wullie Rennie would be the first to accuse Sturgeon of jumping the gun should she call a ref right now.

That's politics for you though. Two sides to every story, but yes Sturgeon should probably wait and see what the EU says and how things play out for a bit yet.

Still thinking that independence and brexit don't transcend party politics are you?

Keep it up, hopefully the indy campaign and SNP are doing the same, as it's doomed to failure. Who'd have thought the SNP would indulge in project fear after years deriding it and taking the moral high ground. How the mighty have fallen.

Messrs Cameron, Osborne and Clinton can attest to that.

elantan

I'm LOVING the fact May has started to be referred to as the new Iron Lady ... I hope they keep that up

.string.

Shakethedisease wrote: »

It's not the boring SNP. It's the boring Scottish public.

You speak like you would have found it perfectly acceptable for the EU to tell the UK that they couldn't hold a referendum on membership without the EU's permission because it would be inconvenient for them. With respect string, just listen to yourself droning on like countries in political unions should shut up and do what they're told by the larger entity every time. Things don't work like that.

No I wrote boring SNP, not Scotland. Are you still equating the SNP with Scotland. They are different. Such confusion may go down well in the thistled collective.

The SNP offer just an unatainable (in the short/medium term)EU membership, but if pushed might be persuaded to offer something else. Already an admission that their Plan A is flakey.

Your remarks on granting/not granting a referendum are false. We all belong to 1 country, the UK. This was agreed also by the Scots a couple of years ago. We all should respect the constitution of our country. If the SNP can't do that it deserves no respect itself.

As for the rest, nothing new therethere, still the same boring hate tactic. Westminster, Tories, English. We know you hate them all.

CLAPTON

Shakethedisease wrote: »

It's too soon to go for it, too many variables. Article 50 first. The rest if recent history is anything to go by, May will provide as ample justification. We've still also to hear officially from the EU which matters too.

Timing is everything after all. Sturgeon would be wise to hold her horses and let the UK/EU negotiations commence. May's playing chicken with the EU, lets hope it doesn't backfire eh.

why is it too soon?
too soon for what?
what variables are you talking about?

do you want independence or not :
why does brexit matter to you?

basically you know that the scots don't want indepence but you hope that they can be tricked by a bit of good timing: pathetic

no integrity, no political courage , no honesty.

.string.

CLAPTON wrote: »

why is it too soon?
too soon for what?
what variables are you talking about?

do you want independence or not :
why does brexit matter to you?

basically you know that the scots don't want indepence but you hope that they can be tricked by a bit of good timing: pathetic

no integrity, no political courage , no honesty.

Yes, you've pointed out the artificiality of that SNP strategy, it's not to do with campaigning on the merits of their case but accumulating ever more whinge material, mixed with fake rage, fake facts and fake promises.

A Fake Conpaign.

I'll give them one for free --- Is there any truth to the rumour that May wore the same shoes as Sturgeon? That would be worth a vote or two if one found anyone silly enough to believe it and think it important.

Enterprise_1701C

Shakethedisease wrote: »

You speak like you would have found it perfectly acceptable for the EU to tell the UK that they couldn't hold a referendum on membership without the EU's permission because it would be inconvenient for them. With respect string, just listen to yourself droning on like countries in political unions should shut up and do what they're told by the larger entity every time. Things don't work like that.

The United Kingdom held a referendum on membership. We, as the UK, are a sovereign nation.

I have just looked up the list of sovereign nations and cannot find Scotland on it.

http://www.nationsonline.org/oneworld/states.htm#s

So, Scotland independently holding a referendum on UK membership would be the same as Hampshire holding the same referendum and just as toothless.