The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

Shakethedisease

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

No, it's really not.

You voted in 2014 to be part of the UK, since then the UK is undertaking one of the most difficult dealings it has had to since probably the 1940's.

So you'll forgive Westminster and the rest of us if we put your feelings on hold for the time being whilst we get our ducks in a row before we pander to your whims any more. This time it's not just about Scotland, as it was in 2014. This time it's about the United Kingdom, and you'll have to wait your turn. I see no reason to bow to the wishes of the divisive nationalists in Scotland and make a complicated situation even more so. Plus in doing so it makes absolutely certain that we can put to bed this idea of "remaining", since you'll have left with the rest of the UK. As Westminster want to do, as members of the EU want you to do.

Feel free to skip happily around in your imaginary world where only Scotland matters. But the reality is very very different.

Sure, we'll forgive Westminster for putting our feelings on hold. But it won't stop a referendum if Holyrood votes for one. You're just going to have to suck that one up am afraid.

The only thing that needs put to bed in Scotland is what the Scots actually want given the last two refs with such conflicting results. This will need resolved ( in Scotland ). You can carry on doing what you're doing though, no one is suggesting that you don't leave the EU as you wish to. Just that Scotland might not be coming along for the ride.

This time it's about the United Kingdom

Yes, yes it is actually. A UK made up of two countries who signed a treaty in 1707 to become the United Kingdom. Scotland doesn't need to wait it's turn for anything UK wise. The UK isn't England.

I think you might have lost sight of that somewhere along the way Tricky. Scotland isn't the only thing that matters. However, as part of the UK how it votes does matter. Theresa seems to have lost sight of that as well.

A treaty between England and Scotland resulted in 1707 in a unified Kingdom of Great Britain, which merged in 1801 with the Kingdom of Ireland to form the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland.

It must be nice to be skipping about in your imaginary world where England/Wales = the UK. I hate to break it to you, but it's not true. In reality. So you'll forgive Sturgeon for getting all her ducks in a row too, in order to represent her part of the UK quite rightly as she was elected to do.

Shakethedisease

mrginge wrote: »

i think we should all be pleased that shakey's so prepared to get off the fence and make these bold predictions on the flimsiest confirmation bias evidence.

Another ref ? If you take confirmation bias to be what the majority of MSP's in Holyrood ( SNP + Green ) have consistently said since 24th June regarding a Hard Brexit. Then be my guest.

Granted we've had about six or so predictions about when this Indy ref2 is going to be actually held since last June but let's not worry too much about that.

The only predictions made by anyone for the date are within the two year window of triggering Brexit and leaving the EU.

So in the spirit of fair play here is my prediction -

There'll be a general election before any independence referendum.

Let's hope so. Then the SNP and the Greens can put a strongly worded definite indy referendum in their manifestos again.

TrickyTree83

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Sure, we'll forgive Westminster for putting our feelings on hold. But it won't stop a referendum if Holyrood votes for one. You're just going to have to suck that one up am afraid.

The only thing that needs put to bed in Scotland is what the Scots actually want given the last two refs with such conflicting results. This will need resolved ( in Scotland ). You can carry on doing what you're doing though, no one is suggesting that you don't leave the EU as you wish to. Just that Scotland might not be coming along for the ride.

Yes, yes it is actually. A UK made up of two countries who signed a treaty in 1707 to become the United Kingdom. Scotland doesn't need to wait it's turn for anything UK wise. The UK isn't England.

I think you might have lost sight of that somewhere along the way Tricky. Scotland isn't the only thing that matters. However, as part of the UK how it votes does matter. Theresa seems to have lost sight of that as well.



It must be nice to be skipping about in your imaginary world where England/Wales = the UK. I hate to break it to you, but it's not true. In reality. So you'll forgive Sturgeon for getting all her ducks in a row too, in order to represent her part of the UK quite rightly as she was elected to do.

Mmmmm you seem confused, as if somehow Scotland isn't part of the UK and isn't controlled at Westminster.

You're not an independent country, neither is England. The United Kingdom is. It really is that simple. Holyrood is no more than a regional assembly. Running things in a region of the UK at the behest of Westminster where you also send representatives.

I can forgive the confusion since the reality of your situation is diametrically opposed to what you believe in and it would seem believe to be reality also.

kabayiri

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

Mmmmm you seem confused, as if somehow Scotland isn't part of the UK and isn't controlled at Westminster.

You're not an independent country, neither is England. The United Kingdom is. It really is that simple. Holyrood is no more than a regional assembly. Running things in a region of the UK at the behest of Westminster where you also send representatives.

I can forgive the confusion since the reality of your situation is diametrically opposed to what you believe in and it would seem believe to be reality also.

All parties seem to accept this. Even the SNP send elected representatives to Westminster, just as the other parties do to represent the fair people of Yorkshire and Cornwall and London etc etc.

If the SNP didn't accept the split they wouldn't engage in the current format would they?

We all knew the EU referendum was UK wide, and would be dealt with as an UK matter, just as we knew the Scottish referendum was limited to Scotland.

There isn't really any confusion when looked at on balance.

Hintza

elantan wrote: »

Hintza must be gutted

"The Board also recognised the editor’s salary has become overly dependent on the vagaries of crowd-sourced fundraising efforts, which has added to the stress and insecurity of that role."

Might I suggest the fervour by the minority is waning resulting in this cash crisis. That is the real story.

Anyway I hope the hacks keep an eye on who is going to help fund this in the future. It had better not be government funds.

Hintza

Oh dear another wee setback........

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/01/11/norwegians-reject-nicola-sturgeons-norway-plan-stay-single-market/

TrickyTree83

kabayiri wrote: »

All parties seem to accept this. Even the SNP send elected representatives to Westminster, just as the other parties do to represent the fair people of Yorkshire and Cornwall and London etc etc.

If the SNP didn't accept the split they wouldn't engage in the current format would they?

We all knew the EU referendum was UK wide, and would be dealt with as an UK matter, just as we knew the Scottish referendum was limited to Scotland.

There isn't really any confusion when looked at on balance.

And yet Shake's comments suggest England and Wales leave the UK, when the UK as a whole decided to leave the EU, why would England and Wales have referenda on independence themselves?

Talking nonsense isn't she.

Conrad

Cant see the Scots people opting to abandon the confident autonomous UK economy powering ahead (it will) making new global alliances, quite possibly an Anglosphere free trade alliance that could also take in Singapore, japan et al. Remember we will not lose any EU trade either, so the argument to leave the UK and get into bed with the lumbering squabble shop EU would be very weak

Shakethedisease

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

Mmmmm you seem confused, as if somehow Scotland isn't part of the UK and isn't controlled at Westminster.

You're not an independent country, neither is England. The United Kingdom is. It really is that simple. Holyrood is no more than a regional assembly. Running things in a region of the UK at the behest of Westminster where you also send representatives.

I can forgive the confusion since the reality of your situation is diametrically opposed to what you believe in and it would seem believe to be reality also.

Scotland and England are in a political union with power residing at Westminster. The problem with the SNP being now so numerous there is that Westminster isn't used to having MP's so focused on Scotland and how Westminster policies affect it. Previously Labour worked always as a single entity across the UK to the point they had their Scottish MP's vote on tuition fees even though it wouldn't affect Scotland. And vice versa when Scottish MP's waved through policies which were extremely unpopular in Scotland.

Those days have gone.

So then will the political union which holds the UK together unless Labour recovers. England and Wales are free to leave the EU as they voted for. However, Scotland voted differently, and has two political parties in power providing options based on those votes.

1) Stay in the UK and out of the EU
2) Remain in the EU and out of the UK
3) Out of the UK/full EU membership and into EFTA/EEA

It's not up to Westminster to shut these options down and they cannot anyway, since they originate at Holyrood and are based solely on Scottish only votes. Absolutely nothing to do with England and Wales. Brexit isn't about leaving the EU for Scotland. It's about the options we now have to choose from. England and Wales have already chosen theirs and that's to be respected. But Scotland hasn't gotten there yet and must have the express opportunity to do so. And also must choose which path to follow before any of the above options/possibilities are closed down completely.

I thought you didn't like or endorse political unions anyway ? :cool:

Shakethedisease

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

And yet Shake's comments suggest England and Wales leave the UK, when the UK as a whole decided to leave the EU, why would England and Wales have referenda on independence themselves?

Talking nonsense isn't she.

No. I was addressing your cavalier view that the UK means doing whatever England and Wales vote for regardless. Simply due to population counts. "Is about the UK this time".

You forgot the Act of Union. And you and kabayiri wittering on about Yorkshire means sadly you haven't the faintest understanding of it either.