The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

CLAPTON

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Let me refer you again to McKenna's article.

Then repeat after me. Soft Brexit for the UK, Soft Brexit for Scotland or indy ref 2 regardless of any polls or trends. Regardless of whether May likes it or not. The timing will be at Holyrood's behest as it's Holyrood's referendum after all.

Brexit triggered first though eh.

Nicola seems to have acknowledged that she has no chance of winning a vanity Iscotland poll this year so is pretending to wait to see what sort of brexit its likely to be.

Her only concern is what the indy polls show ; if they ever look good when any old faux nonsense will be used to justify an illegal referendum.

The legally binding referendum will only be at the bequest of Westminter.

If only those scots had voted for less money last time, all this nonsense would be over and of course we would know what currency an iscotland would be using.

elantan

Shakethedisease wrote: »

A RISE/Radical left wing blog closing down ? Hardly. Will be a shame if it really does close, I know it caters for a particular set of readership who really love it. Got a bit too airy fairy for me though. Tended to go on a bit too much and present arguments about what Scotland should be like after independence ( from a very left leaning point of view ).. without actually addressing getting independence first. Most pro indy's are focused on the tiny matter of getting independence first and foremost. Bella did a bit of damage to themselves in the run up to the last Holyrood elections sadly with this stance. And they definitely overestimated the appetite for the new RISE party.

Hope they do survive though.

Hintza must be gutted

http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2017/01/11/bella-futures-2/

Shakethedisease

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

We're back in puff the magic dragon land again.

Scotland is in no position to be bullying the rest of the UK. Clearly if a referendum is requested in Holyrood, it will then be debated in the UK parliament and granted (or not) at the behest of Westminster.

You can hold an advisory referendum in Scotland but it will hold no more power over Westminster than a poll on this forum.

Is a Scottish referendum to be held in Scotland asking for the views of Scottish residents. It's Holyrood's to call. As is the timing, just like last time.

A London government being seen to use the courts to prevent the Scottish people deciding their own destiny would be the dream scenario for the pro-independence movement.

Ultimately, the electorate can't be stopped from having their say – the SNP would have the option of using an ordinary election to secure a mandate for independence. Or they could call a consultative referendum on maximum devolution, which everyone seems to agree would be within their powers, and ironically would be much easier to win.

More than one way to skin a cat anyway if it comes to it. No one is bullying the UK. England and Wales are free to leave the Single Market/EU as they wish. Is the result that concerns Westminster not a referendum itself. Nor the timing of it.

And of course, if the Yes side are going to lose anyway as you keep saying then what's the problem ? Davidson can speak of nothing else.

CLAPTON

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Is a Scottish referendum to be held in Scotland asking for the views of Scottish residents. It's Holyrood's to call. As is the timing, just like last time.


And of course, if the Yes side are going to lose anyway as you keep saying then what's the problem ? Davidson can speak of nothing else.

if the YES side was going to win; Nicola would already have called for a indy vanity referendum: instead of which she has chickened out and dithered again.

Thrugelmir

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Of course there is. The answer is obviously to take control of the Scottish economy from those who have run it as badly as you state and try something else. How else is the Scottish economy to recover ?

Recover from what? When was Scotland ever an economy to be marvelled at. The last people you'd trust to run an economy in it's entirety are politicians. While they tinker around the edges much is outside of their control in this global age.

kabayiri

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Recover from what? When was Scotland ever an economy to be marvelled at. The last people you'd trust to run an economy in it's entirety are politicians. While they tinker around the edges much is outside of their control in this global age.

A molly coddling socialist luvvy dovey government is not the best way to face the harsh realities of independence.

Bullying your former partner to subsidise your new existence only gets you so far.

I'm not sure people realise just how difficult life could be in this so-called globalization project.

Well, I guess someone will shout "renewables" at me, like that's the answer to everything.

TrickyTree83

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Is a Scottish referendum to be held in Scotland asking for the views of Scottish residents. It's Holyrood's to call. As is the timing, just like last time.


More than one way to skin a cat anyway if it comes to it. No one is bullying the UK. England and Wales are free to leave the Single Market/EU as they wish. Is the result that concerns Westminster not a referendum itself. Nor the timing of it.

And of course, if the Yes side are going to lose anyway as you keep saying then what's the problem ? Davidson can speak of nothing else.

No, it's really not.

You voted in 2014 to be part of the UK, since then the UK is undertaking one of the most difficult dealings it has had to since probably the 1940's.

So you'll forgive Westminster and the rest of us if we put your feelings on hold for the time being whilst we get our ducks in a row before we pander to your whims any more. This time it's not just about Scotland, as it was in 2014. This time it's about the United Kingdom, and you'll have to wait your turn. I see no reason to bow to the wishes of the divisive nationalists in Scotland and make a complicated situation even more so. Plus in doing so it makes absolutely certain that we can put to bed this idea of "remaining", since you'll have left with the rest of the UK. As Westminster want to do, as members of the EU want you to do.

Feel free to skip happily around in your imaginary world where only Scotland matters. But the reality is very very different.

mrginge

i think we should all be pleased that shakey's so prepared to get off the fence and make these bold predictions on the flimsiest confirmation bias evidence.

Granted we've had about six or so predictions about when this Indy ref2 is going to be actually held since last June but let's not worry too much about that.
So in the spirit of fair play here is my prediction -

There'll be a general election before any independence referendum.

Shakethedisease

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Recover from what? When was Scotland ever an economy to be marvelled at. The last people you'd trust to run an economy in it's entirety are politicians. While they tinker around the edges much is outside of their control in this global age.

Ask Tricky. He's the one going on about how bad Scotland's economy currently is under Westminster administration.

Shakethedisease

kabayiri wrote: »

A molly coddling socialist luvvy dovey government is not the best way to face the harsh realities of independence.

Bullying your former partner to subsidise your new existence only gets you so far.

I'm not sure people realise just how difficult life could be in this so-called globalization project.

Well, I guess someone will shout "renewables" at me, like that's the answer to everything.

'Socialist'. It's pretty obvious you've missed most of the last two elections in Scotland. Most of the other parties bar the Tories think the SNP are right wing. Ask Kezia.