The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

Thrugelmir

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Missed the point entirely as well as not reading the article at all have we ?

I haven't missed the point at all. You've missed my point though.

Reality is far more complex that simply what's written on a piece of paper.

Shaka_Zulu

Shakethedisease wrote: »

She'll ask for another Edinburgh Agreement, but if it's not forthcoming, there will be an advisory Scottish referendum anyway. Almost certainly any such referendum would take place well before the UK leaves the EU since that's the point of having it at all at this point in time. If it's a Yes vote, Sturgeon will also almost certainly ask for Scotland to be removed immediately from UK Article 50 talks in order to negotiate solely on Scotland's future status.

What happens if the majority that want to remain in the union, do not want to play silly games "advisory Scottish referendum" and refuse to participate?

Explain how the SNP would sort that out?

TrickyTree83

Publishing plans that everyone can see are beyond ridiculous and bemoaning the lack of a publicised plan for Brexit has backfired in spectacular fashion.

If they were not already, they are now a laughing stock. It does reinforce the views of the converted though. They see this as a reasonable publication and the derision as yet more scorn poured on Scots by the nasty English, even though that's not quite the case.

Would anyone in the EU really deal with her seriously when she seems more of a clown than Farage? I'm no fan of his, but she's an off the scale BS peddler.

Shakethedisease

Shaka_Zulu wrote: »

What happens if the majority that want to remain in the union, do not want to play silly games "advisory Scottish referendum" and refuse to participate?

Explain how the SNP would sort that out?

Then it would be a landslide Yes vote and more fool those that believe an advisory referendum in Scotland ( such as the Brexit vote was in the UK) isn't politically binding in Scotland.

Scotland isn't Catalonia you know, it's a different constitutional basket of fish altogether. People that don't vote can't moan about the result. If a second referendum bill is passed at Holyrood. Then a second referendum will go ahead, and in the event of a Yes vote will mandate the Scottish Govt to start negotiations with Westminster. Those that do refuse to vote in one, are only making a Yes victory more likely am afraid.

This will be made 100% clear if a second referendum is called. Game playing and tactics with turnout figures won't make any difference to the result. It isn't 1979 again either.

As announced in September 2016 in A Plan For Scotland: The Scottish Government's Programme For Scotland 2016-17, the Scottish Government is publishing for consultation a draft Referendum bill in order that it is ready for introduction should the Scottish Government conclude that seeking the view of the Scottish people on independence is the best or only way to protect Scotland’s interests in the wake of the EU referendum. It would be for the Scottish Parliament to consider the bill and decide whether a referendum should be held.

This consultation paper invites views on the proposals for how the referendum would be run. A draft Scottish Independence Referendum bill is set out as an appendix to the document.

https://consult.scotland.gov.uk/elections-and-constitutional-development-division/draft-referendum-bill/

Is definitely being prepared for though.

Shakethedisease

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

Publishing plans that everyone can see are beyond ridiculous and bemoaning the lack of a publicised plan for Brexit has backfired in spectacular fashion.

If they were not already, they are now a laughing stock. It does reinforce the views of the converted though. They see this as a reasonable publication and the derision as yet more scorn poured on Scots by the nasty English, even though that's not quite the case.

Would anyone in the EU really deal with her seriously when she seems more of a clown than Farage? I'm no fan of his, but she's an off the scale BS peddler.

This is all in your head Tricky.:)

It's been received quite warmly in Scotland, even by the Daily Record and several notable Scottish Labour high ups. And it's how it's viewed in Scotland that really matters at the end of the day.

The best thing of all is how this is forcing Scottish Labour and Lib dems into more and more ridiculous positions trying to justify themselves. They're both looking clueless and lost. Kezia Dugdale and Ruth Davidson are on loop all over Scottish social media going on and on about what a complete disaster leaving the Single Market would be for Scotland a few months ago. This includes Davidson's big 'showdown' with Boris. Davidson now looks like a bit of an idiot trying to go back on it all now.

And you still don't get it. Please try. These proposals are what the other parties wanted after the vote. If May says No, it's Dugdale and Rennie that are in the soup. They never thought Sturgeon would actually go through with it and instead would call another referendum immediately. Well she hasn't, she's done exactly what they wanted exploring each and every even vaguely possible option short of a referendum in order to keep Scotland both in the Single Market and the UK.

If May says No. She's saying No to Scottish Labour and Lib Dems 'whooo we want to stay in the UK and the EU'...and Yes to another referendum. May would be closing ALL of Scottish Labour and Lib Dem's options down if there's a hard Brexit. Your lack of understanding of Scottish politics here, as opposed to Westminster politics is a little telling at times.

CLAPTON

Shakethedisease wrote: »

This is all in your head Tricky.:)

It's been received quite warmly in Scotland, even by the Daily Record and several notable Scottish Labour high ups. And it's how it's viewed in Scotland that really matters at the end of the day.

The best thing of all is how this is forcing Scottish Labour and Lib dems into more and more ridiculous positions trying to justify themselves. They're both looking clueless and lost. Kezia Dugdale and Ruth Davidson are on loop all over Scottish social media going on and on about what a complete disaster leaving the Single Market would be for Scotland a few months ago. This includes Davidson's big 'showdown' with Boris. Davidson now looks like a bit of an idiot trying to go back on it all now.

And you still don't get it. Please try. These proposals are what the other parties wanted after the vote. If May says No, it's Dugdale and Rennie that are in the soup. They never thought Sturgeon would actually go through with it and instead would call another referendum immediately. Well she hasn't, she's done exactly what they wanted exploring each and every even vaguely possible option short of a referendum in order to keep Scotland both in the Single Market and the UK.

If May says No. She's saying No to Scottish Labour and Lib Dems 'whooo we want to stay in the UK and the EU'...and Yes to another referendum. May would be closing ALL of Scottish Labour and Lib Dem's options down if there's a hard Brexit. Your lack of understanding of Scottish politics here, as opposed to Westminster politics is a little telling at times.

what's the current level of support for Iscotland? - has it reached the magic 60%
has Nicola said what currency Iscotland will use : are the scottish voters grown up enough to be allowed to know? why all the indecision and dithering

Shaka_Zulu

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Then it would be a landslide Yes vote and more fool those that believe an advisory referendum in Scotland ( such as the Brexit vote was in the UK) isn't politically binding in Scotland.

The SNP have no authority to call call a referendum as you well know.

You can not equate a SNP straw poll with the brexit referendum they are not the same.

What in effect you are advocating is declaration of UDI. Do you honestly think the SNP would have a mandate if the majority of the population refused to vote?

Enterprise_1701C

Shakethedisease wrote: »

How can Scotland be out if not part of Article 50 or the final leaving deal though ? None of you have explained that as yet...

...waits...

If Scotland voted to leave the UK it would take them longer than 2 years to leave, they would not want to lose their subsidy overnight, and a currency would have to be set up etc etc.

If Scotland chose to become independent whilst the UK is part of the EU then they would also be choosing to leave the EU (the EU stated this before the previous independence referendum). If they are still part of the UK when we leave then they will also be leaving.

Sturgeon has not been given any other answer within the EU.

Scotland is merely a region of the UK for these purposes, as such they will be leaving the EU one way or another. Whether they choose to attempt to join is up to them, but they would be loosing an awful lot in doing so, including the massive amount of trade they do with their nearest neighbour (swapping it for a tiny amount of trade with more distant ones), and the opportunity to trade with the rest of the world on a more friendly platform. They would also be losing their identity, their fishing waters, and most of their net income. IF they are as rich as they say even after losing the massive subsidy then they would be net contributors, and it probably wont be long before they are no longer allowed to fly the Scottish flag or call themselves Scottish. And all that would be for nothing because the EU is going to implode before too long if they do not reform.

Thrugelmir

Shakethedisease wrote: »

The best thing of all is how this is forcing Scottish Labour and Lib dems into more and more ridiculous positions trying to justify themselves. They're both looking clueless and lost.

I didn't realise that the art of politics was to bully people and make them look stupid. As was said a while back by senior European officials. Scotland doesn't have the competence to negotiate. Seems as if they were right.

kabayiri

Thrugelmir wrote: »

I didn't realise that the art of politics was to bully people and make them look stupid. As was said a while back by senior European officials. Scotland doesn't have the competence to negotiate. Seems as if they were right.

Add railroading the voters to that.

Since when has the idea become dominant that Scottish voters are some kind of super EU proponents?

Clearly, a 1/3rd of them are not so bothered.

The independence ref in 2014 was difficult enough, with clear unknowns which Clapton highlights.

I can't see how an independence ref in the middle of A50 negotiations will be any clearer.

I wonder how happy Scots would be to adopt the Euro. There isn't really an alternative for a new nation 'at the heart of Europe'.