The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

Shakethedisease

CLAPTON wrote: »

The SNP will only demand a new referendum if they think they can win easily
Brexit is only relevant if and only if, the result leads to a very significant surge in the wish to vote for independence.

Better if there was a fairer and more equal society in the UK, but Cameron wishes to bribe the scots and the scots wish to receive the bribes, for the detriment of all.

The SNP don't conjure up votes by magic. Either the electorate are behind them or not as far as calling a referendum is concerned. You can't separate the two. They've consistently said that a Brexit might herald 'calls' for a referendum by the Scots. Not that they would call one just for fun.

Generali

Voters also told YouGov in no uncertain terms that keeping the Tories out was not a reason to leave the Union. Only 10% of Scots said it was a reason to leave.

If you're the incumbent it's not in your interest to debate as it puts your opponents on an equal footing. This really is 101 politics.

ruggedtoast

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Scotland has voted to 'keep the Tories out' for decades. Ruth Davidson's campaign was run on constitutional lines ( stopping another referendum ) and deleting all references to the fact she was a Conservative. Not party political lines.

Labour voters in Sept 2014 thought they were voting No against Salmond, and that Miliband would be in office May 2015. They were very wrong. In any future referendum all they have to do is stay home and 'abstain'. The hardcore unionist vote won't be enough.

This election was encouraging for the 'Ruth Davidson party' I'll admit. But its not a Tory revival. It's a unionist one that only even then garnered only 23% of the vote. Labour votes in the FPTP section were in front of the Conservatives. The list system simply worked in the Tories favour this time round. The SNP far and away took the majority of votes to be had. There will be no 'list' option in a future referendum and a lot of Labour voters, activists and even former First Minsters, and Deputy leaders. Are now leaning towards autonomy. The tide is turning there.




I'd say that any future ref is still years away. Only it feels like the Brexit camp have ramped up a few gears since the local elections/Mayor elections are over. Battle buses, and Johnson in all the newspapers pulling no punches in a Trump kind of way. Everything the Remain camp have thrown is being laughed at a bit for being far too OTT. Cameron is dodging face to face debates once again.

I hope Nicola is preparing just in case.

Are you seriously suggesting people didn't know they were voting for a Conservative?

If voters in Scotland are really that ignorant then I don't imagine any amount of polling will predict anything.

Otherwise is just appears to be your usual habit of interpreting the facts in any way that you think will give you some hope of seeing Scottish independence in your lifetime.

elantan

Oh they knew they were voting Tory, they would just rather be governed by them than see Scotland separate from being governed by WM ... Atleast less people voted for Ruth than voted for Thatcher, so theTories are still toxic, a majority of them got in on the list, so they were rejected by the people but made it in on the list preference ...

They would rather see more suffer than be independent ... speaks a lot about them ...

And a large majority of them were ex labour ...

And don't forget over 1 million people voted SNP, their highest ever amount of votes ...


This is one of my fave videos from Indy ref ... describes how I and many others feel

https://youtu.be/TGcb8aY2FR8

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

elantan wrote: »

They would rather see more suffer than be independent ... speaks a lot about them ...

No.

We don't want to see more people suffer.

Which is exactly why we fight against independence.

And a large majority of them were ex labour ...

The swing from SNP to Tory was more than the swing from Labour to Tory across vast swathes of the country.

And don't forget over 1 million people voted SNP, their highest ever amount of votes ...

And around 1.2m people voted for the Unionist parties.

This is one of my fave videos from Indy ref ... describes how I and many others feel

https://youtu.be/TGcb8aY2FR8

And yet the video is full of, as wee Eck would say, "Stuff and Nonsense"... It was independence that guaranteed all the things they were complaining about in the video. Austerity max, higher taxes, loss of our livelihoods and quality of life.... That's what Indy brings, and the only way to prevent it is to stay in the Union.

islandannie

This is one of my fave videos from Indy ref ... describes how I and many others feel

https://youtu.be/TGcb8aY2FR8[/QUOTE]

One of the greatest examples of why everyone should have their tax returns made public.

Shakethedisease

Generali wrote: »

Voters also told YouGov in no uncertain terms that keeping the Tories out was not a reason to leave the Union. Only 10% of Scots said it was a reason to leave.

If you're the incumbent it's not in your interest to debate as it puts your opponents on an equal footing. This really is 101 politics.

101 Scottish politics. About 75% of the electorate always vote to keep the Tories out and have done for decades. Nothing has changed in that regard.

Scottish Labour voters are now having to chose between independence/home rule, or, putting the Conservatives into power for the forseeable future. There's a lot of Labour voters aren't keen on the latter for obvious reasons.

Shakethedisease

ruggedtoast wrote: »

Are you seriously suggesting people didn't know they were voting for a Conservative?

If voters in Scotland are really that ignorant then I don't imagine any amount of polling will predict anything.

Otherwise is just appears to be your usual habit of interpreting the facts in any way that you think will give you some hope of seeing Scottish independence in your lifetime.

They weren't voting for Conservative policies no. Not in the slightest. They were voting against another Scottish referendum. You needed an electron microscope to see any mention of the Conservative party on Ruth Davidson's campaign literature or in any of her speeches.

Thankfully that will change very shortly in Holyrood where we can look forward to every single Tory policy being defended by her from now on. I for one will be looking forward to it.

No more buffalos, ice lollies, wacky 'aren't I fun' Ruthie jokey photo ops and a little more in the way of policy would be good from the Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party. There's been very little of it so far. Ruth's call for all the other parties to get behind her to stop the SNP on several of their manifesto policies has crashed and burned already. Labour in particular won't be making that mistake again. The SNP is now only 1 short of a majority now due to a Labour MSP presiding officer being elected today.

Just like the unionist vote ( 23% ) rallied round the Ruth Davidson party for this election. Don't make the mistake that the rise in votes there hasn't horrified enough Scots that the same won't happen in the opposite direction ( 46/5% ) in order to stop the Tories. Some eyes will have been well and truly opened there.

Whether independence happens in my lifetime or not, doesn't stop me debating with you in favour of it. Don't get all ars*y about it. Its what we do on threads like these.

Generali

Shakethedisease wrote: »

101 Scottish politics. About 75% of the electorate always vote to keep the Tories out and have done for decades. Nothing has changed in that regard.

Scottish Labour voters are now having to chose between independence/home rule, or, putting the Conservatives into power for the forseeable future. There's a lot of Labour voters aren't keen on the latter for obvious reasons.

Well the Scottish are clearly a fickle lot as in September 2014, only 2% of Scots (not 10%, my apologies) told Survation that they would vote in the Referendum in order to keep the Tories out.

Thankfully most Scots accept that living in a Democracy means that the other lot can and do win elections too.

cells

even if Scotland votes to leave there will likely be a left and right party and neither will hold Scotland forever. Much like in England it will switch around every 1-4 cycles