The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

.string.

Moto2 wrote: »

You accuse me of reading into minds and then do it yourself?

The whole point is there is no evidence
It's still nothing but journalists giving an opinion that you post 3rd (or whatever) hand. It's very rare for you to say you're speculating so well done you, keep up with it instead of trying to insinuate that there is any sort of substance in most of the tweets, blogs, articles etc. Where's the fact, where's the tested data to back it up?

Why would the Irish government - who probably have more to gain or lose than any other EU country - want to talk out of school to regional politicians and risk their future?

The SNP are simply trying to claim a Mulligan and using whatever vague and tenuous support and validity they can to get another go.

Yes - it's all getting rather shrill. That visit of Salmon to the EU --- it was asked what they discussed, well nothing probably, but it will be used as a deliberately misleading spin as "negotiating" as was done for the "negotiation" with the Spanish.

Hintza

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Davidson is hell bent on stopping it because she's frightened of a Yes vote.

I sincerely hope she is more than frightened I hope she is bloody terrified as are the majority of Scots.

As for Dugdale I will agree with you she is all over the place but might I suggest her fight is a broader fight about the relevance of the Labour party not only in Scotland but in the UK as a whole.

TrickyTree83

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Tricky I invite you once again to look very closely at this paragraph and think deeply on it.



The Scottish Tories have street stalls on the go right now every chance they get getting folks to sign a petition against another referendum.

Dugdale is flailing all over the place and has been forced into calling for some sort of massive constitutional change within the UK in order to, and I quote, 'Save the Union'. She wants a new treaty of Union in order to preserve the UK in some form. But not it's current one.

Do these Scottish politicians and leaders of their respective parties sound to you like they are totally relaxed and confident that a second referendum will result in a No vote to you ? Davidson is hell bent on stopping it because she's frightened of a Yes vote. Dugdale and most of her party have given up completely even trying to sell the Union as it stands currently to Scottish voters.

Cling on to your polls as a comfort blanket if you wish. And pretend if you like that the only way a second referendum will happen is via Theresa May's permission and the timing to suit her. However never in the history of any country gaining independence does that self determination rely on permission from the entity they are leaving. The people who live there give permission via the ballot box. No one else. Also no one is worried about the courts, who will always be on Scotland's side on the right to self determination and the right to chose who and how they are governed. Look it up.



Still lots of events and uncertainties ahead as yet though. At least one knows where one stands on the matter with the SNP. They've been perfectly clear and above board since the very beginning with what will happen should Scotland be forced out of the Single Market/EU against Scottish voters wishes.

It's all tenuous, against the backdrop of a supreme court case where parliamentary sovereignty is confirmed as supreme you will have to go down the route of a binding referendum.

Just because you personally want independence doesn't mean Scotland will go down the route of self-determination

That would involve years of legal wrangling, not just with unionists but with the UK and other international bodies. This would ruin the Scottish economy in the meantime as every business that can migrates out of it whilst the process unfolds, since the rest of the UK will still be a known quantity. Certainly in such a scenario Scotland would be a successor state, in which case you'd be brand new, a new application to the EU would be required, you'll probably be fought in the courts over trying to do this on the sly too. It's just not going to happen so I'd get that out of your mind. You need a dissolution of the act of union.

The SNP are running around the EU having faux meetings about Scotland's place in the EU. If these meetings are taking place they could be considered unlawful since foreign policy is a reserved matter, not to mention the EU keep telling the UK there is no negotiation until the triggering of A50. Could well be giving ammunition to the UK negotiating team.

You say the Conservatives and Labour are panicking. It doesn't look that way to me. The polls are slipping away from indy and the SNP. The SNP is making a hash of government, they have completely alienated the SNP vote that wanted to leave the EU by wanting to force another referendum but this time with the caveat of EU membership.

You're on the downward trajectory, with no rabbits in your hat. All the while the SNP and the independence movement are telling lies to the Scottish people about the threat independence and Brexit pose to the Scottish people. Indy 2 will be a hail mary, and it looks like it's going to fail, all Ruth and to be honest Kezia too needs to do is to expose the SNP and indy movements lies. Naturally the SNP and indy movement will try to throw mud back in an attempt to discredit them because the indy movement has no substantive arguments of their own.

In fact you're posting hail mary's now by talking about self-determination. The fact it's gotten as far for you to suggest that speaks voulmes to the state of the movement in your own mind. By the time the UK (incl. Scotland) is out of the EU and you're given your indy 2, the state of the EU could be in absolute chaos. With the Italian banks failing and running elections in which 5Star stand a good chance, Le Pen could well be president of France, Merkel could well be ousted too and Gert Wilders could be president of the Netherlands. By the time you get your indy 2 ref the EU could be on its knees and about to fall and you're asking Scots to vote to join it and leave the UK! :rotfl:

It certainly has the feeling of failure about it, and lets face it, there's a track record of failure in referenda for the SNP and the indy movement.

Hintza

The Nats are doing to well in the Supreme Court just now but putting that aside for a moment.

They are really showing their true colours, they did not allow NO2NP to attend the discussions about the "engagement process" for Named Persons.

The Deputy First Minister and Education Secretary John Swinney put a ban on NO2NP’s campaign spokesman Simon Calvert from attending a meeting of third sector groups to discuss the future of the Named Person scheme.

The talks were held as part of an “engagement process” session in Edinburgh on 1 December, to discuss possible ways of changing the scheme following the Supreme Court defeat earlier this year.
But The Christian Institute, a lead party in the legal case, and which helped spearhead the formation of NO2NP, was told its presence would not be welcome at the meeting.


Do they only want to talk to the converted? No wonder Scotland is a shambles under the SNP government.

I also wonder how the Survey2016.scot went? Not very well perhaps?

Nicola stated on 30 November (the day it was due to end):- "I will tell you once it has concluded tomorrow." We are still waiting.

The trouble of course with the survey was it wasn't anonymous so anyone not on the same hymn sheet was hardly likely to complete the survey.
No doubt when the results are announced it will claim 57%(+/-) of Scots are now in favour of independence. Of course it can't come back as 60% plus because then her bluff would be called.

sss555s

Hintza wrote: »

I sincerely hope she is more than frightened I hope she is bloody terrified as are the majority of Scots.

Are you not terrified that last weeks Westminster announcement stated that Brexit will cost the UK £60B over the next 5 years? That's another £6B lumped onto Scotland on top of the current situation for something we didn't vote for.

About the current situation... http://www.nationaldebtclock.co.uk/

The UK is in no position to cover it's interest payment never mind reduce the debt thanks to Westminster putting all it's eggs into London banking and "hanging tough" with the war mongers.

How can you have any trust in Westminster going on their track record of being one of the most corrupt self serving bunch in the Western World.

CLAPTON

sss555s wrote: »

Are you not terrified that last weeks Westminster announcement stated that Brexit will cost the UK £60B over the next 5 years? That's another £6B lumped onto Scotland on top of the current situation for something we didn't vote for.

About the current situation... http://www.nationaldebtclock.co.uk/

The UK is in no position to cover it's interest payment never mind reduce the debt thanks to Westminster putting all it's eggs into London banking and "hanging tough" with the war mongers.

How can you have any trust in Westminster going on their track record of being one of the most corrupt self serving bunch in the Western World.

are these figures produced by the same sources that estimate the huge deficit and necessary austerity that an Iscotland would experience ?


do you always believe westminster estimates and assumptions?

.string.

sss555s wrote: »

....

How can you have any trust in Westminster going on their track record of being one of the most corrupt self serving bunch in the Western World.
....

How can anyone take seriously someone who posts such a crassly idiotic hate-based remark as that?

Shakethedisease

Moto2 wrote: »

You accuse me of reading into minds and then do it yourself?

The whole point is there is no evidence
It's still nothing but journalists giving an opinion that you post 3rd (or whatever) hand. It's very rare for you to say you're speculating so well done you, keep up with it instead of trying to insinuate that there is any sort of substance in most of the tweets, blogs, articles etc. Where's the fact, where's the tested data to back it up?

I always make a point of saying in my opinion ( imo ) or similar if it is indeed just that. And if no one here posted blogs, articles, tweets or commentary then ALL threads here would be would be opinion. I don't see you or anyone else going mental about the fact that the Brexit threads here are stuffed full of them. Why do you think this thread should be any different ?

Or perhaps it's just me or the links I post you're objecting to ? Maybe because you don't like what they contain ? Twitter links in particular in my view are excellent sources of up to the minute information. It usually takes other media outlets a few hours to catch up. Also, tweets tend to come from all sides of current affairs and topics often citing reading material that one would miss if just using the traditional media.

Why would the Irish government - who probably have more to gain or lose than any other EU country - want to talk out of school to regional politicians and risk their future?

I don't know. But that's how the Irish newspapers are reporting it as I've shown you before you went into a huff about it. More to the point is why they gave Sturgeon such an uncommonly warm welcome.

Rock star welcome for Scottish leader Nicola Sturgeon

Senators lost the run of themselves yesterday with the visit of Scotland’s first minister to the Upper House...

..She spoke about the “special and unbreakable” bonds between the Irish and Scottish: both share more than 1,000 years of history and there are cultural and historic links between the two. Senators faced the Cathaoirleach’s bell more than once for speaking over time. And the praise and pledges of support for Scotland went on and on.

In the wings of the press gallery, Scottish reporters privately said it was “amazing”, watching these Irish politicians falling over themselves and pledging to do what they could for a sister-Celt nation.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/viewpoints/analysis/rock-star-welcome-for-scottish-leader-nicola-sturgeon-432920.html

The SNP are simply trying to claim a Mulligan and using whatever vague and tenuous support and validity they can to get another go.

But it's the Irish newspapers reporting these things. Not the SNP who have claimed nothing. Officially nothing will come of it. Unofficially imo it looks like Dublin will be quite amenable to helping out Scotland in some form during the Brexit negotiations. They're certainly not being shy in pledging to be 'helpful'.

The question here in Dublin is could Ireland help Scotland to get some sort of special deal out of Brexit?
Last night, the Irish foreign minister, Charlie Flanagan, said that the Irish government was anxious to be helpful to Scotland when it comes to Brexit.
But he didn't say whether or not that would mean backing special arrangements for Scotland.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-38139630

Shakethedisease

Hintza wrote: »

I also wonder how the Survey2016.scot went? Not very well perhaps?

Nicola stated on 30 November (the day it was due to end):- "I will tell you once it has concluded tomorrow." We are still waiting.

The trouble of course with the survey was it wasn't anonymous so anyone not on the same hymn sheet was hardly likely to complete the survey.
No doubt when the results are announced it will claim 57%(+/-) of Scots are now in favour of independence. Of course it can't come back as 60% plus because then her bluff would be called.

As far as I'm aware they're not going to publish the results so you're in for a long wait. They got their 2 million responses which will be checked against the electoral register. So those who wasted their time filling in multiple joke responses did so in vain.

No doubt they'll be concentrating on the much smaller groups of Yes/Leave and No/Remain voters for future campaign purposes though.

.string.

Shakethedisease wrote: »

As far as I'm aware they're not going to publish the results so you're in for a long wait. They got their 2 million responses which will be checked against the electoral register. So those who wasted their time filling in multiple joke responses did so in vain.

No doubt they'll be concentrating on the much smaller groups of Yes/Leave and No/Remain voters for future campaign purposes though.

The inference is, of course, that the results are nothing for the SNP to boast about.

Otherwise they would have done so.