The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

.string.

Shakethedisease wrote: »

.... Next time round any independence campaign will focus around the Tories, indicating that a No vote this time means a vote for keeping Tories happy. ....

That figures - another conpaign based on hate.

Not based on facts, not based on economic soundness but based on hate.

ruggedtoast

The EU has just crushed Theresa May's bully boy antics toward Scotland.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-eu-citizenship-keep-freedom-of-movement-guy-verhofstadt-chief-negotiator-opt-in-passports-a7465271.html

EU negotiators will offer Brits an individual opt-in to remain EU citizens, chief negotiator confirms

Scots will retain EU citizenship after Brexit, and after their own independence.

English EU passport holders (which is going to be pretty much all of them including the twits who voted Leave) will expect to go to Scotland and everywhere else with their EU passports, and return using the same.

This is a very, very, good day for the SNP.

TrickyTree83

ruggedtoast wrote: »

The EU has just crushed Theresa May's bully boy antics toward Scotland.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-eu-citizenship-keep-freedom-of-movement-guy-verhofstadt-chief-negotiator-opt-in-passports-a7465271.html



Scots will retain EU citizenship after Brexit, and after their own independence.

English EU passport holders (which is going to be pretty much all of them including the twits who voted Leave) will expect to go to Scotland and everywhere else with their EU passports, and return using the same.

This is a very, very, good day for the SNP.

Interestingly you stumbled upon probably the real reason behind it. Allowing the tourism trade to continue unabated, since in the event of no single market membership, hard trade borders will still exist. People can move through but trade and services will be subject to different rules. The problems for the SNP and the independence movement remain the same, that the UK is more important than the EU to Scotland.

antrobus

ruggedtoast wrote: »

The EU has just crushed Theresa May's bully boy antics toward Scotland.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-eu-citizenship-keep-freedom-of-movement-guy-verhofstadt-chief-negotiator-opt-in-passports-a7465271.html

Scots will retain EU citizenship after Brexit, and after their own independence.

English EU passport holders (which is going to be pretty much all of them including the twits who voted Leave) will expect to go to Scotland and everywhere else with their EU passports, and return using the same.

This is a very, very, good day for the SNP.

Eh what? Even the headline of your linked article states that "EU negotiators will offer Brits an individual opt-in to remain EU citizens".

There is no 'special' deal for Scotland, the article doesn't even mention Scotland. It just states that there is a plan that "would see Brits offered individual “associate citizenship”, letting them keep free movement to live and work across the EU, as well as a vote in European Parliament elections."

This has nothing to do with Scotland, the SNP, or independence.

Please stop making things up.

.string.

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

Interestingly you stumbled upon probably the real reason behind it. Allowing the tourism trade to continue unabated, since in the event of no single market membership, hard trade borders will still exist. People can move through but trade and services will be subject to different rules. The problems for the SNP and the independence movement remain the same, that the UK is more important than the EU to Scotland.

Interesting - glad you quoted that since I don't normally bother with Toastie's random ravings and would have missed it.

I note that "working" does not appear in the text of the amendment --- perhaps there is an update. Reflecting on that, it could signify that ex-Pats are indeed likely to become bargaining chips because clearly the reciprocal offer from the UK would be, to say the least, problematic. I wonder if they envisage a subscription or a one off payment.

I doubt we would sell our citizenship so cheaply. They should call it Residency, but the Citizenship is a self-seeking term along the path to the Federal European Republic of which the SNP plans to make Scotland a Province.

Shakethedisease will be pleased, she used to maintain (a couple of years ago) that continued EU citizenship was already a right. How nice for her that at last one of her fantasies may become true.

Other than that I can't see what Toastie was blathering about re the SNP or May although I put the latter down to compulsive ranting.

Thrugelmir

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Once Article 50 is triggered and if it's to be out of the Single Market there will be a very quickly called independence referendum.

So the SNP propose to ask people to vote without knowing what they are voting for. All just seems to smack of greater and greater desperation. While the SNP hierarchy tie themselves up in knots. Whoever is running the PR spin machine needs to take a reality check. Treating the electorate as sheep is a sure way of getting the unwanted response and possibly more. More so one wonders if the SNP have the required level of competency to run a country by themselves.

.string.

Thrugelmir wrote: »

So the SNP propose to ask people to vote without knowing what they are voting for. All just seems to smack of greater and greater desperation. While the SNP hierarchy tie themselves up in knots. Whoever is running the PR spin machine needs to take a reality check. Treating the electorate as sheep is a sure way of getting the unwanted response and possibly more. More so one wonders if the SNP have the required level of competency to run a country by themselves.

Running a country downhill is probably easy, they don't care for anything else than their obsession.

But don't bemoan their limitations, it may well result in them leaping gloriously into the mother of all booby traps.

Shakethedisease

Hintza wrote: »

Not going well at the Supreme Court for the Nats


Supreme Court judges have said they were “struggling” to see the relevance of the Scottish Government’s case that MSPs should be consulted before the Prime Minister starts formal Brexit negotiations.

Shame

It's going just as planned highlighting how little say Holyrood and the other devolved regions get in UK decisions which affect their own competencies and laws.

NI will be one to watch there in the final decision. In fact it's extremely risky that the SC rules on this area of the debate at all.

Shakethedisease

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

Interestingly you stumbled upon probably the real reason behind it. Allowing the tourism trade to continue unabated, since in the event of no single market membership, hard trade borders will still exist. People can move through but trade and services will be subject to different rules. The problems for the SNP and the independence movement remain the same, that the UK is more important than the EU to Scotland.

I wonder what Junker and Salmond will find to talk about then in that case ?

Glenn Campbell ‏@GlennBBC 4h4 hours ago EU Commission president @JunckerEU confirms meeting with @thesnp international affairs spokesman @AlexSalmond

England/Wales are leaving and won't be important to the EU in any context for the foreseeable future once the two negotiation years are up.

Shakethedisease

Thrugelmir wrote: »

So the SNP propose to ask people to vote without knowing what they are voting for. All just seems to smack of greater and greater desperation. While the SNP hierarchy tie themselves up in knots. Whoever is running the PR spin machine needs to take a reality check. Treating the electorate as sheep is a sure way of getting the unwanted response and possibly more. More so one wonders if the SNP have the required level of competency to run a country by themselves.

People knew what they were voting for in May in Holyrood. A potential second independence referendum should Scotland be taken out of the EU against the wishes of the Scottish electorate. It was loud and clear in the SNP manifesto.

Scots can read words put in front of them as well as anyone else. As for desperation, Sturgeon said from the moment the Brexit referendum was announced what she would do given a certain set of results, and is simply doing everything as said she would. Any Scot who can read a manifesto or read a newspaper knew exactly what they were voting for in terms of Scotland and the EU ref result.

We'll know very shortly after Article 50 is triggered what May's intentions are, as well as EU intentions. I have no doubt the EU won't be keeping negotiations secret. Or that the Irish in particular will be keeping the Scottish Govt well informed of what's going on.