The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

TrickyTree83

Shakethedisease wrote: »

People knew what they were voting for in May in Holyrood. A potential second independence referendum should Scotland be taken out of the EU against the wishes of the Scottish electorate. It was loud and clear in the SNP manifesto.

Scots can read words put in front of them as well as anyone else. As for desperation, Sturgeon said from the moment the Brexit referendum was announced what she would do given a certain set of results, and is simply doing everything as said she would. Any Scot who can read a manifesto or read a newspaper knew exactly what they were voting for in terms of Scotland and the EU ref result.

We'll know very shortly after Article 50 is triggered what May's intentions are, as well as EU intentions. I have no doubt the EU won't be keeping negotiations secret. Or that the Irish in particular will be keeping the Scottish Govt well informed of what's going on.

Mentioning 2015 and skirting over the low turnout and reduced plebiscite

As usual.

The argument is finished. Hilariously if there's an opt-in for EU citizenship allowing people from the UK to travel freely across the EU it's less for the SNP to use against Brexit. Not that they had that much to begin with as independence will hurt Scotland more.

I honestly believe now that your cause is done. It's finished. You'll be on the downward trajectory from here on.

Nicola and the SNP have lumped your cause in with EU membership and will present a new binary choice to the Scottish electorate. The independence option is now worse than in 2014! Who would have thought it possible to be worse the 2nd time around. Incredible foolishness.

At least the first time (2014) whilst oil was high it was sort of credible. Now you've got hot air, ideological dogma and less evidence supporting independence than theologians have for the existence of an omnipotent being. I see nowhere else for me to go now except to ridicule it until evidence that it is the better option is presented and cannot be refuted.

None of the current arguments stack up, even the political one. You argue that you've no voice in Westminster and fail to see that you've done that to yourselves, the people of Scotland need to blame the SNP and the independence movement for that. If they stopped being tribal and voted for a UK national party they would stand a greater chance of representation in government. Voting for a regional party and then bemoaning the lack of a voice in government is - and should be referred to as - lunacy.

It's deserving of the ridicule. I cannot see any cogent argument for independence at this present time. If Ruth were to throw everything she had into smashing all of the flimsy independence narratives - no quarter given - she'll send the SNP and the independence movement reeling into the political abyss. If Kezia had any backbone she'd stick to her guns instead of trying to pander to the people who believe the SNP/indy lies.

The_Last_Username

Shakethedisease wrote: »

I wonder what Junker and Salmond will find to talk about then in that case ?

Well it can't be anything to do with Brexit can it, since the EU Commissions oft-repeated stance is:

“I cannot go an inch beyond the ‘no negotiations without notification’ principle,” said Margaritis Schinas, the chief spokesman for the commission’s president, Jean-Claude Juncker.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/oct/03/eu-commission-still-refuses-uk-talks-before-article-50-triggered
As Scotland is beyond doubt still a part of the UK .....................

Personally I hope that they do have a pleasant little tete-a-tete about Brexit and that at least some will be published.
Because that will without doubt prove detrimental to both Salmond and Junckers.

LABMAN

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Sure. But that will be for people at the ballot box to decide. And in May, they were quite happy with the SNP on Education.

I've got five kids. They've all done just fine after or (3 of them ) currently going through the Scottish Education system. I'm quite happy to judge on extensive personal experience. Scottish Labour, Tories or Lib Dems have no real answers as to what they'd do differently either. <--- That's a real doozer of problem for them.

Perhaps since you're so resignation happy. You'd like to put forward what you think Scottish Labour or the other parties are currently offering as alternatives for folks to vote for ? *Am all ears.

*100/1 There's no reply to this post.

I do so like anagrams!

Thrugelmir

Shakethedisease wrote: »

We'll know very shortly after Article 50 is triggered what May's intentions are, as well as EU intentions. I have no doubt the EU won't be keeping negotiations secret. Or that the Irish in particular will be keeping the Scottish Govt well informed of what's going on.

No one knows what a post Brexit UK will be like in 5, 10 or 20 years time. The SNP will have to sell a vision though immediately. A far greater challenge. The Irish need the UK. They'll be looking after there own interests during the negotiations. Very presumptuous to assume that Scotland are going to be constantly briefed.

Shakethedisease

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

Mentioning 2015 and skirting over the low turnout and reduced plebiscite

As usual.

May 2016 Holyrood Scottish elections. Would help if you managed to keep up with everyone else.

The argument is finished. Hilariously if there's an opt-in for EU citizenship allowing people from the UK to travel freely across the EU it's less for the SNP to use against Brexit. Not that they had that much to begin with as independence will hurt Scotland more.

I honestly believe now that your cause is done. It's finished. You'll be on the downward trajectory from here on.

I'm sure you comfort yourself with this thought. But it's not bourne out well with any evidence.

Nicola and the SNP have lumped your cause in with EU membership and will present a new binary choice to the Scottish electorate. The independence option is now worse than in 2014! Who would have thought it possible to be worse the 2nd time around. Incredible foolishness.

Tories. You've missed out the next decade of Scotland and Conservative Govt's. The SNP, the Greens and Scottish Labour won't do though. Last independence campaign started out with Yes a full 22% points behind No. Next time its 3 or 4 % short of 50% before one is even announced.

At least the first time (2014) whilst oil was high it was sort of credible. Now you've got hot air, ideological dogma and less evidence supporting independence than theologians have for the existence of an omnipotent being. I see nowhere else for me to go now except to ridicule it until evidence that it is the better option is presented and cannot be refuted.

You'd ridicule the thought of Scottish independence even if oil was sitting at it's previous heights. Most did on here. Oh the price was high but it was 'running out' then. Now it's the price. It won't be a factor in any next referendum thank goodness.

None of the current arguments stack up, even the political one. You argue that you've no voice in Westminster and fail to see that you've done that to yourselves, the people of Scotland need to blame the SNP and the independence movement for that. If they stopped being tribal and voted for a UK national party they would stand a greater chance of representation in government. Voting for a regional party and then bemoaning the lack of a voice in government is - and should be referred to as - lunacy.

It's deserving of the ridicule. I cannot see any cogent argument for independence at this present time. If Ruth were to throw everything she had into smashing all of the flimsy independence narratives - no quarter given - she'll send the SNP and the independence movement reeling into the political abyss. If Kezia had any backbone she'd stick to her guns instead of trying to pander to the people who believe the SNP/indy lies.

Ruth is going nowhere apart from a safe seat in England after a Yes vote. She has no policies whatsoever other than stopping a second referendum and the numbers are against her in Holyrood. In other words she can't. Kezia will be toppled after next May after the local council elections more than likely.. and replaced with a full on Home Rule Labour dinosaur Conservative hater like Rowely.

Once Scottish Labour goes, it all will for the Union, and they're nearly there. Nice timing if they have a leadership election after May 17 not long after Article 50 is triggered, and elect a Home Rule advocate. The SNP will welcome that.

This is far from finished. Davidson ( stop the referendum ) and Dugdale ( polls are so bad, right let's do Vow 4 ) are panicking for a reason, and it's not because they're at all relaxed about a second referendum and potential result. They know Scotland better than that, even if you don't.

Shakethedisease

The_Last_Username wrote: »

Well it can't be anything to do with Brexit can it, since the EU Commissions oft-repeated stance is: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/oct/03/eu-commission-still-refuses-uk-talks-before-article-50-triggered
As Scotland is beyond doubt still a part of the UK .....................

Personally I hope that they do have a pleasant little tete-a-tete about Brexit and that at least some will be published.
Because that will without doubt prove detrimental to both Salmond and Junckers.

I'm sure they won't talk about Brexit at aaaaaall... ;);) :cool: (officially).

The_Last_Username

Shakethedisease wrote: »

I'm sure they won't talk about Brexit at aaaaaall... ;);) :cool: (officially).

One printed word is all it will take.

Shakethedisease

Thrugelmir wrote: »

No one knows what a post Brexit UK will be like in 5, 10 or 20 years time. The SNP will have to sell a vision though immediately. A far greater challenge. The Irish need the UK. They'll be looking after there own interests during the negotiations. Very presumptuous to assume that Scotland are going to be constantly briefed.

I'm sure Scotland won't be briefed...;););) :cool: ( officially).

Sturgeon visit offers glimpse into Brexit diplomacy game

For Edinburgh, an open channel of communication to Dublin is more important than ever. Even before the Brexit referendum, the Holyrood government has often struggled to get direct access to EU discussions on issues, such as agriculture or fisheries, where its crucial national interests are at stake. That problem will be magnified by Brexit, where the stakes are higher still.

“It’s very unclear to what extent Scotland will even be getting the information coming out of London-Brussels talks, or even internal London talks,” says one Government figure. “She and her government would see it as important in the long run to have a good strong channel of communication to Dublin in order to get information and a sense of what’s on the table.”

The Government has made a point, since the Brexit referendum, of raising Scotland’s concerns. At the first European Council after the British vote, Taoiseach Enda Kenny in effect acted as a surrogate for the absent Sturgeon. “I think the Scots are clear that Ireland is positive. The relationship is very good,” says a senior official.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/sturgeon-visit-offers-glimpse-into-brexit-diplomacy-game-1.2891054

Like I said. Nothing 'official'.

Shakethedisease

The_Last_Username wrote: »

One printed word is all it will take.

Take for what ?

Moto2

Shakethedisease wrote: »

I'm sure Scotland won't be briefed...;););) :cool: ( officially).

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/sturgeon-visit-offers-glimpse-into-brexit-diplomacy-game-1.2891054

Like I said. Nothing[strike]'official'[/strike].

Fixed it for you