The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

Moto2

Shakethedisease wrote: »

I always make a point of saying in my opinion ( imo ) or similar if it is indeed just that. And if no one here posted blogs, articles, tweets or commentary then ALL threads here would be would be opinion. I don't see you or anyone else going mental about the fact that the Brexit threads here are stuffed full of them. Why do you think this thread should be any different ?

No you don't, you often claim articles and tweets are facts, when they're nothing more than opinions and then get all 'woe me the victim' if someone pulls you up on it.

PS You may want to look up what a Mulligan is

Shakethedisease

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

It's all tenuous, against the backdrop of a supreme court case where parliamentary sovereignty is confirmed as supreme you will have to go down the route of a binding referendum.

Just because you personally want independence doesn't mean Scotland will go down the route of self-determination

But I've never said there would 100% be a Yes vote. Just that a second referendum is on the cards should there be a Hard Brexit, there's been a lot of changes since 2014 and that the polls are still after two years very close.

I've put my own cards on the table where I personally stand on things. I'm afraid you're the one a little bit stuck in denial about the possibility of and the potential result should any second referendum occur.. which looks quite likely.

That would involve years of legal wrangling, not just with unionists but with the UK and other international bodies. This would ruin the Scottish economy in the meantime as every business that can migrates out of it whilst the process unfolds, since the rest of the UK will still be a known quantity. Certainly in such a scenario Scotland would be a successor state, in which case you'd be brand new, a new application to the EU would be required, you'll probably be fought in the courts over trying to do this on the sly too. It's just not going to happen so I'd get that out of your mind. You need a dissolution of the act of union.

Successor states start off life in 99.9% of cases with no debt. Where would that put your hypothetical Scottish deficit then ?

Scotland can either be a continuing state along with rUK, or a successor one taking no debt with it. It cannot under any circumstances be both a continuing state taking on a fair share of the UK's debt AND a successor state which takes none of the previous treaties and the applications of those with it ( EU treaties included ).

You'll have to make up your mind on which one you think Scotland would be ? It cannot be both.

The SNP are running around the EU having faux meetings about Scotland's place in the EU. If these meetings are taking place they could be considered unlawful since foreign policy is a reserved matter, not to mention the EU keep telling the UK there is no negotiation until the triggering of A50. Could well be giving ammunition to the UK negotiating team.

Westminster hasn't stepped in to do or say anything. So that's that as far as the SNP travelling all over the place is concerned. Off they go... :cool:

You say the Conservatives and Labour are panicking. It doesn't look that way to me. The polls are slipping away from indy and the SNP. The SNP is making a hash of government, they have completely alienated the SNP vote that wanted to leave the EU by wanting to force another referendum but this time with the caveat of EU membership.

You're on the downward trajectory, with no rabbits in your hat. All the while the SNP and the independence movement are telling lies to the Scottish people about the threat independence and Brexit pose to the Scottish people. Indy 2 will be a hail mary, and it looks like it's going to fail, all Ruth and to be honest Kezia too needs to do is to expose the SNP and indy movements lies. Naturally the SNP and indy movement will try to throw mud back in an attempt to discredit them because the indy movement has no substantive arguments of their own.

In fact you're posting hail mary's now by talking about self-determination. The fact it's gotten as far for you to suggest that speaks voulmes to the state of the movement in your own mind. By the time the UK (incl. Scotland) is out of the EU and you're given your indy 2, the state of the EU could be in absolute chaos. With the Italian banks failing and running elections in which 5Star stand a good chance, Le Pen could well be president of France, Merkel could well be ousted too and Gert Wilders could be president of the Netherlands. By the time you get your indy 2 ref the EU could be on its knees and about to fall and you're asking Scots to vote to join it and leave the UK! :rotfl:

It certainly has the feeling of failure about it, and lets face it, there's a track record of failure in referenda for the SNP and the indy movement.

A bit of a waffle about nothing much other than your own opinion. Which is fine and a good read.. but uninformed and dangerously complacent for someone who wants the Union to stay intact. Davidson and Dugdale you can say a lot about them, but complacency about the SNP and a second referendum result certainly isn't one of them.

Shakethedisease

Moto2 wrote: »

No you don't, you often claim articles and tweets are facts, when they're nothing more than opinions and then get all 'woe me the victim' if someone pulls you up on it.

I'm pretty sure you're quite capable of making your own mind up on any articles or tweets I post. If it's newsworthy and on topic and from someone like Glenn Campbell ( BBC ) or someone similarly 'credible' then I don't see why you've got a problem with it.

Plenty of other people seem to encounter no problems when they post articles or tweets on these boards. There are entire threads based in them in some cases. Isn't that correct ? I don't feel victimised at all, I'd have stopped posting here looooooooong ago if I wanted an echo chamber. I just find it strange that you have an issue with articles and tweets in posts, but only on this thread, and only from one person.

I don't see any similar comments from you about Hintza or anyone else's article posts on this thread ?

PS You may want to look up what a Mulligan is

Can't be ar**d to be honest.

Moto2

I just find it strange that you have an issue with articles and tweets in posts, but only on this thread, and only from one person.

Really? you know where else I post?

I post more on a cycling forum knocking back SNP spin than I do here and even more on a Uni forum

CLAPTON

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Successor states start off life in 99.9% of cases with no debt.

don't say this too loudly : why would Westminster allow a legal referendum if the SNP declared they would renegade on the fair share of debt.

Where would that put your hypothetical Scottish deficit then ?

you really must try to understand the difference between a DEBT and DEFICIT

Scotland can either be a continuing state along with rUK, or a successor one taking no debt with it. It cannot under any circumstances be both a continuing state taking on a fair share of the UK's debt AND a successor state which takes none of the previous treaties and the applications of those with it ( EU treaties included ).

You'll have to make up your mind on which one you think Scotland would be ? It cannot be both.

this is nonsense and nothing to do with Westminster : it is up to the other countries (or the EU) in the world to say whether they will want to carry existing UK treaties to iscotland :
in any case are you willing to go to war to support these foreign states or maintain weapon supplies or military training for these states, or maintain foreign aid?

which treaties ae you so keen on maintaining?.

in any event taking a fair share of debt has nothing to do with agreements with foreign countries.

Moto2

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Can't be ar**d to be honest.

... and yet you managed to reply to the comment with something totally unrelated ??

Shakethedisease

.string. wrote: »

The inference is, of course, that the results are nothing for the SNP to boast about.

Otherwise they would have done so.

In my opinion ( nods to Moto2 ) this is about targeting those who voted Yes last time and Leave in the Brexit ref. And vice versa.

There's an enormous amount of churn in that middle ground. The SNP will want to know how large those %'s are. 100% Yes and No voters can be easily set aside.

Moto2

Here's dear Nicola talking about Scottish debt and deficit earlier this year

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVynXGj4eyA

Shakethedisease

Moto2 wrote: »

... and yet you managed to reply to the comment with something totally unrelated ??

Not in my opinion.

No you don't, you often claim articles and tweets are facts, when they're nothing more than opinions and then get all 'woe me the victim' if someone pulls you up on it.

Tweets, articles, posts and opinons. My reply was about tweets, articles, posts and opinions.

And I was completely honest about not being ar**d looking something up just because you think I should.

Shakethedisease

CLAPTON wrote: »

don't say this too loudly : why would Westminster allow a legal referendum if the SNP declared they would renegade on the fair share of debt.



you really must try to understand the difference between a DEBT and DEFICIT



this is nonsense and nothing to do with Westminster : it is up to the other countries (or the EU) in the world to say whether they will want to carry existing UK treaties to iscotland :
in any case are you willing to go to war to support these foreign states or maintain weapon supplies or military training for these states, or maintain foreign aid?

which treaties ae you so keen on maintaining?.

in any event taking a fair share of debt has nothing to do with agreements with foreign countries.

And you and Tricky must get to know the difference between a successor and a continuing state. One starts life completely as a new state with no debt, nor previous treaties applicable.

The other one takes debts, assets and previous treaties are applicable. An independent Scotland wouldn't and cannot start life as both of these. It has to be one or the other.