The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

mayonnaise

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

What a bizarre interpretation of the Leave vote they have then.

Not much different to that Polish woman on Question Time who asserted everyone who voted Leave wanted to kick her out, despite no one ever campaigning to kick people out.
That's the left and the media, whipping up hysteria. Don't believe it.

Someone needs to inform Sir Hogan-Howe it's not really a 'horrible spike in hate crime', but merely the left and the media whipping up hysteria.

'Horrible spike' in hate crime linked to Brexit vote, Met police say Eastern Europeans ‘particularly targeted’, Hogan-Howe reports,

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/sep/28/hate-crime-horrible-spike-brexit-vote-metropolitan-police

Shakethedisease

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

Why oh why do you lot lie?

Show me the quote where I said a large number of Scots were anglophobic (since you can't have anglophobia, it's not a disease, it's a belief/opinion).

Oh right, so now we're not all racist and xenophobic?

Is it just those who voted to leave the EU, because they're disagreeable to start with?

I find it [STRIKE]funny[/STRIKE] sad that you and other pro-independence supporters appear unable to read and digest information.

Iain McWhirter probably nails it best today with his article where the current differences arise between politics and media in Scotland compared to England/Wales. I've taken the bits that should have most interest to you on this topic given what's been discussed and posted them below. You should be able to read the article in full ( 6 free a month I think ) though tbh most of I've posted. Otherwise it's subscription time.

Scotland used to be profoundly homophobic. It is only 16 years since the “Keep the Clause” campaign to outlaw the "promotion" of !!!!!exuality in schools divided Scotland almost as deeply as the independence referendum did in 2014. Surveys in the early years of devolution indicated that a substantial minority of Scots believed there was nothing wrong in being prejudiced against other races or religions. There were numerous accounts in the press of anti-English hate crimes...

..But times have changed. On most available evidence, prejudice and homophobia have declined sharply in the past decade or so in all classes. Polls conducted by the Scottish Social Attitudes Survey show a remarkable turnaround in attitudes, for example, towards same-sex marriage, which was legalised in Scotland in 2014. The vast majority of Scots now believe that "everything should be done to combat racism and prejudice against sexual and ethnic minorities".

So, is there something special about Scottish working-class people that they are immune to the blandishments of right-wing populists like Farage and Trump?..

..But whatever you think of Nicola Sturgeon, she could not conceivably be compared to Donald Trump, Nigel Farage or Marine Le Pen, and neither could the SNP, which has replaced Labour as the party of the Scottish working class. The First Minister would no more accept bigotry in her party than she would a membership application from the President elect. And it’s not that Scottish voters are immune to prejudice – rather, they have not yet given up on politics. Scottish working-class people registered and voted in unprecedented numbers in the independence referendum in 2014. Many believe a just society – that "better nation” – is possible and achievable by democratic means. This may be naïve, but it is what keeps a country together.

..Scotland is also fortunate in having a form of relatively benign identity politics in the shape of Scottish nationalism. Patriotism isn't necessarily a bad thing provided it is attached to higher ideals than narrow self-interest. Small countries have to have modest ambitions and no-one talks of making Scotland Great Again.

Scots voted overwhelmingly to remain in the EU. Scotland also seems to have generated a love of country that doesn't involve overt displays of racial or ethnic superiority. Like the Tartan Army, many Scots have a keen awareness of their own limitations.

..Consequently, the political parties in Scotland are all pretty much on the same political page. Labour, SNP, LibDems, Greens and even many Tories are broadly internationalist, support EU membership and are positive about the contribution made by immigrants.

..Many people love their country much as they love their families, and that needn't be a bad thing. In fact, if it is founded on civic values of internationalism and social justice, nationalism, like democracy itself, can be a political unifier. We all know that there’s nothing special about being Scottish and, in troubled times, that self-knowledge may be Scotland’s greatest asset.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/opinion/14916379.In_Scotland__enlightened_leadership_prevented_a_working_class_lurch_to_the_right/?ref=mr&lp=1


( early years of devolution = from 1999 ).

Shakethedisease

kabayiri wrote: »

If Hamish is right, and rampant bigotry/racism/xenophobia/<insert favourite denigration here> is taking over in England, then why aren't more and more EU migrants flocking northwards to Scotland?

Direct evidence of this would be seized upon by Nicola as reason to call another referendum and remain 'at the heart of Europe'.

Eu nationals are no more sure of what's going to happen next in Scotland than they are anywhere else in the UK. Theresa May is keeping us all guessing.

And anyway, it's only been a few months. Far too soon to measure any 'flocking'.

Thrugelmir

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Eu nationals are no more sure of what's going to happen next in Scotland than they are anywhere else in the UK. Theresa May is keeping us all guessing.

Would you expect the EU heads of state to show their hands as well. Unbelievably naive and short sighted.

ruggedtoast

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Iain McWhirter probably nails it best today with his article where the current differences arise between politics and media in Scotland compared to England/Wales. I've taken the bits that should have most interest to you on this topic given what's been discussed and posted them below. You should be able to read the article in full ( 6 free a month I think ) though tbh most of I've posted. Otherwise it's subscription time.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/opinion/14916379.In_Scotland__enlightened_leadership_prevented_a_working_class_lurch_to_the_right/?ref=mr&lp=1


( early years of devolution = from 1999 ).

Thats because Scots accept they are part if a normal country with normal limitations.

Most of the Brexitwits I have spoken to seem to think the Empire is going to come back as soon as England leaves the EU.

kabayiri

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Eu nationals are no more sure of what's going to happen next in Scotland than they are anywhere else in the UK. Theresa May is keeping us all guessing.

And anyway, it's only been a few months. Far too soon to measure any 'flocking'.

I thought time was of the essence with you? It wasn't so long ago you were worried about the time limits imposed by invoking A50.

Are the EU nationals any more sure what is happening in EU land?

I don't need to list off the series of upcoming elections, or unresolved issues in the EU, to tell you nothing is clear.

People will have to live with the situation as it is. Eg, Greece is a mess but right now plenty of Greeks just try and get on with life.

CLAPTON

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Eu nationals are no more sure of what's going to happen next in Scotland than they are anywhere else in the UK. Theresa May is keeping us all guessing.

And anyway, it's only been a few months. Far too soon to measure any 'flocking'.

Nicola is still keeping the EU and, more importantly, the voters of scotland, waiting to say what currency she plans to use when iscotland occurs.
Why is it a secret or is the issue too complicated for Nicola to decide.

Thank goodness she isn't responsible of brexit plans ; we would still be waiting in 40 years time.

TrickyTree83

mayonnaise wrote: »

Someone needs to inform Sir Hogan-Howe it's not really a 'horrible spike in hate crime', but merely the left and the media whipping up hysteria.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/sep/28/hate-crime-horrible-spike-brexit-vote-metropolitan-police

So can you or anyone who thanked you for the information tell the rest of us...

What area is this in?

What proportion of the population of that area is it?

What are the levels like now compared to the same time in 2015, in fact you could try looking at that nationally too.

Home office data hub might help you.

Shakethedisease

kabayiri wrote: »

I thought time was of the essence with you? It wasn't so long ago you were worried about the time limits imposed by invoking A50.

Are the EU nationals any more sure what is happening in EU land?

I don't need to list off the series of upcoming elections, or unresolved issues in the EU, to tell you nothing is clear.

People will have to live with the situation as it is. Eg, Greece is a mess but right now plenty of Greeks just try and get on with life.

I can see unless it's spelled out for you about 100 times you're not going to take this in. But here goes again.

Until Article 50 is invoked then there's been no material change such as was outlined in the SNP manifesto. Once Article 50 is invoked then time is of the essence. Two years till the UK is out = two years during which another independence referendum must be held if Scotland is to withdraw itself from Article 50 terms. Or else risk having this Tory govt negotiate on Scotland's behalf, which I can assure you, is not a tempting prospect for many Scots.

If Theresa fires the gun in March for a hard Brexit after dismissing what Sturgeon is going to put in front of her in the next few weeks. Then expect a moves towards a referendum, the technicalities and legal arguments aside, to be called not long afterwards.

Sturgeon has little to lose. She either wins a special deal for Scotland or another referendum. And the prospect of a Yes vote within the current context of political events could never have been dreamed of two years ago.. has never been higher. Sturgeon could've written them on a wishlist 19/09/2014. Starting with membership of the SNP soaring within days, to the 2015 GE, the Brexit vote and ending with May and co dithering for months afterwards. Allowing people time to start getting ducks in rows, National Survey's up and running and Yes groups rebooting all over Scotland and prepared.

At least the EU nationals will vote Yes next time.

sss555s

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Would you expect the EU heads of state to show their hands as well. Unbelievably naive and short sighted.

Can I just repeat the reply above to all the ones demanding what, when and where is Nicolas next move and why hasn't she told the Scots her plans. As Thug says, you're unbelievably naive and short sighted.

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

So can you or anyone who thanked you for the information tell the rest of us...

What area is this in?

What proportion of the population of that area is it?

What are the levels like now compared to the same time in 2015, in fact you could try looking at that nationally too.

Home office data hub might help you.

Yes, I'll help you with that Tricky...


If you don't understand the information, don't reply! You are here more time than anyone so if you want the answers to those questions find them out yourself.

:beer: